D&D 5E Psionics in a sci-fi D&D

[Scars Unseen]

Give the psion the spells that feel thematically appropriate. Same than with every caster class. You don't need to invent an entire parallel magic system for that, any more than you would need to invent a parallel combat system to include laser guns.

The "same as every caster class" is a point I will directly challenge. Why must psions be casters in the first place? The D&D monk is as close a fantasy analogue to some fictional users of psychic powers as any of the caster classes. The assumption here seems to be that a psion will necessarily be emulating the function of a wizard or similar class, but that is only necessarily true insofar as D&D magic encompasses every role possible due to spell list bloat over the decades.

My core point has been and remains that the class shouldn't be designed with the assumptions of other classes by default. Rather, the goals of what the class is meant to achieve should be considered first and foremost, with class design following as a result. Psion = science magic user is one possible outcome (and one of the options in the poll), but it is, in my opinion, both the laziest and least satisfying one.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The "same as every caster class" is a point I will directly challenge. Why must psions be casters in the first place?

Because by definition psion is a person focusing on magic-like mental powers. That's the defining thing.

The D&D monk is as close a fantasy analogue to some fictional users of psychic powers as any of the caster classes.

Monk is primarily a physical class. Though I could see a paradigm where there was a full caster mystic or psion that had analogous relationship to the monk than cleric has to the paladin. This is actually the angle I'd adopt were I to put psion-like class in fantasy D&D. Less science, more meditation based mystical mental powers. In scifi things might need a different flavour though.

 

[Mind of tempest]

A lot of people will tell you it meshes poorly with fantasy...

Just expand on warlocks to cover all the available power sources and you have class-free 5e.

I have seen homebrews that do that they forget the rule of simplicity and are a damned mess to get to work could we try something different?

 

[Aldarc]

And the point several of us making is not that. The point is that designing a class that doesn't take the fictional conceits of the concept it is built around into account is unlikely to produce a satisfying result. Taking a chassis designed for an entirely different type of fiction and filing off the serial numbers even less so.

Obviously, this is an opinion, and clearly it is not universal as evidenced by the 27 pages of this discussion. But the relation to real science isn't the basis for that opinion.

This is a Sci-Fi D&D. I would expect that any fantasy, science-fantasy, or science-fiction version of D&D would hew closer to D&Disms. Starfinder, for example, is basically a D&D take on science fantasy.

Or do we mean something like Dune where psionic powers can move you across the stars?

That apparently changed as a direct result of the David Lynch movie. Frank Herbert liked the movie version so much that he incorporated it in his later books.

Monk is primarily a physical class. Though I could see a paradigm where there was a full caster mystic or psion that had analogous relationship to the monk than cleric has to the paladin. This is actually the angle I'd adopt were I to put psion-like class in fantasy D&D. Less science, more meditation based mystical mental powers. In scifi things might need a different flavour though.

Same. This was more-or-less 4e's approach, which had the Monk use the Psionic power source.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Because by definition psion is a person focusing on magic-like mental powers. That's the defining thing.

Psylocke is a psion. Not very magey to me. Also, the toolbox of pretty much every fictional psion in sci-fi I can think of is incredibly limited compared to even D&D half casters. Even Paul Atreides is outrageously powerful more in scale than in scope. It just isn't a good fit, in my opinion.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Psylocke is a psion. Not very magey to me.

She's the Bladesinger equivalent. (Also, the original Psylocke was very magey, before they turned her to into sexed-up psionic female Wolverine.)

Also, the toolbox of pretty much every fictional psion in sci-fi I can think of is incredibly limited compared to even D&D half casters. Even Paul Atreides is outrageously powerful more in scale than in scope. It just isn't a good fit, in my opinion.

Level 20 sorcerer has 15 spells known. How much more limited than that you feel Psion should be?

Furthermore, this is a game. I don't think it is a good idea to design classes that are super limited in what they can do. It won't be fun to the player in the long run.

 

[Scars Unseen]

This is a Sci-Fi D&D. I would expect that any fantasy, science-fantasy, or science-fiction version of D&D would hew closer to D&Disms. Starfinder, for example, is basically a D&D take on science fantasy.

Hewing to D&Disms isn't limited to spellcasters. Also, that's the same kind of logic that keeps the warlord class from getting a 5E release. Honestly, that's even worse an argument than "because the wizard already exists" to me. By that argument, there's no need to ever create new classes or introduce any changes mechanically because anything that moves away from or adds to the established base is bad. Hell, by that argument, 5E is bad because it changed a lot of conceits from previous editions.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm sorry to challenge your personal belief system, but yes, psionics is always scientific bollocks.

The Aberrant Mind Sorcerer has zero science in it. The origins are

1. Cthulhu touched your brain
2. Astral wind touched your brain
3. Aboleth touched your brain
4. Mind flayers STD
5. Flumph touched your brain
6. You have 2 brains

Psionics is not always scientific. Just very often because its often in sci-fi.

 

[Scars Unseen]

She's the Bladesinger equivalent.

Very much disagree. Not even the concept is that close. More like a monk with a few save-or-die powers added.

Level 20 sorcerer has 15 spells known. How much more limited than that you feel Psion should be?

You're still working on the assumption of spell lists. I'm not working with that assumption, so it's potentially apples to oranges.

Furthermore, this is a game. I don't think it is a good idea to design classes that are super limited in what they can do. It won't be fun to the player in the long run.

Yeah, and that's why every class is a caster now. Wait, they aren't? Then that either means that people do have fun with limited classes or that you don't have to design a class like a caster for it to have variation in play.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The Aberrant Mind Sorcerer has zero science in it. The origins are

1. Cthulhu touched your brain
2. Astral wind touched your brain
3. Aboleth touched your brain
4. Mind flayers STD
5. Flumph touched your brain
6. You have 2 brains

Psionics is not always scientific. Just very often because its often in sci-fi.

Gaining psionic powers though alien meddling or due having a biological oddity or being exposed to an exotic force all sound pretty in line with the sort of 'science' that tends to go with psionics.