D&D 5E Psionics in a sci-fi D&D

[Paul Farquhar]

The "same as every caster class" is a point I will directly challenge. Why must psions be casters in the first place?

There are several non-caster psionics subclasses already in the game, such as Soulknife and Psi Warrior, along with some 3PP monks.

The thing is, a science fiction reskin of D&D is likely to need some kind of caster-analogue in order to offer a decent selection of of character options.

 

[Thunder Brother]

So I'm coming into this thread fairly late and may be retreading old ground, but I want to return to a point that I think @Crimson Longinus brought up.

What would the new mechanics for a hypothetical Psion class be? And how would it be distinct from magic such that it would require it's own system?

How is a Psionic telepathically charming a person different from a Bard casting Charm Person?
What's the difference between a Psion shooting a bolt of lightning and a Wizard casting Lightning Bolt?
What's the difference between using telekinesis to pick up something and a Sorcerer using mage hand? Or using Catapult to attack?

Is it just the flavor? To be a bit facetious, we can just make spell slots into "power slots", spells into "powers", and throw in a distinct spell list (power list) with each subclass getting bonus spells (powers) and I think we're basically set.

Because to me, at the end of the day, it's still just magic, no matter how much technobabble you use to flavor it. The end result is basically the same. And since 5e mostly doesn't care about the source of each class's magic or spells, so why make Psion special?

 

[Krachek]

So I'm coming into this thread fairly late and may be retreading old ground, but I want to return to a point that I think @Crimson Longinus brought up.

What would the new mechanics for a hypothetical Psion class be? And how would it be distinct from magic such that it would require it's own system?

How is a Psionic telepathically charming a person different from a Bard casting Charm Person?
What's the difference between a Psion shooting a bolt of lightning and a Wizard casting Lightning Bolt?
What's the difference between using telekinesis to pick up something and a Sorcerer using mage hand? Or using Catapult to attack?

Is it just the flavor? To be a bit facetious, we can just make spell slots into "power slots", spells into "powers", and throw in a distinct spell list (power list) with each subclass getting bonus spells (powers) and I think we're basically set.

Because to me, at the end of the day, it's still just magic, no matter how much technobabble you use to flavor it. The end result is basically the same. And since 5e mostly doesn't care about the source of each class's magic or spells, so why make Psion special?

After some reply in other thread, I start to understand some expectations :
Psionic need to be “special“ even in a fantasy game.
Psionic need to be a system out of the system, like “I used my telekinetic power to” and add a flavorful description.
Overall some have the expectation of an ideal system that create no dissonance, no break with the fantasy.
So we got a perpetual “in your dream“ system!

 

[Yaarel]

There are many spells that already feel psionic and belong on the Psion class spell list.

Certain spells feel nonpsionic because they are complex and fiddly, or they summon external beings, and shouldnt be on the list.

There are certain effects that a Psion should do, that arent spells yet. A Psion needs certain new spells, perhaps even increase the core spells that are available to other classes as well when appropriate.

Relatedly, some spells need rethinking, like the awkward Mage Hand and telekinesis and Hand spells, and like the need to lower the slot levels of the telepathy spells.

 

[Yaarel]

The Psion class can have class features that are unique to the Psion class. But the spells should be normal spells.

The class features should probably relate to the Psion archetype: Telekinetic (fly, force objects), Telepath (charm, illusion), Shapeshifter (shapechange, healing), or Precognative (clairvoyance, teleportation, temporal magic, luck).

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is going nowhere. For some bizarre reason some people seem to think that psionics is somehow more scientific of plausible than magic. It is not. It is all made up nonsense and can and will work exactly as the creator of fiction desires.

At this point, we are in "don't yuck our yum" territory. If you think psionics is just reskinned magic, then do that. What does it matter

Which was what we where asked. I think using a reskinned version of something that is the product of over forty years of playtesting is wiser than trying to reinvent the wheel*.

But @Morrus asked for our opinions, why do you object so strongly to me giving mine?




*Based on the assumption that the existing D&D spellcasting classes are not part of the setting.

Because you've given it, made your position clear, and so has the other side. What more is there to say, especially since the poll is going the other way?

 

[Micah Sweet]

But that's pretty easily disproven.

Casters in D&D do not emulate fictional conceits. Like, at all. I cannot think of a single fictional example (outside of D&D fiction of course, but, even then, usually not) that follows D&D casting rules.

Never minding the combat oriented classes using a combat system that is pretty much entirely abstracted and actually follows virtually no genre conceits. The complete lack of "stunting" mechanics in most version of D&D is a good example here.

The classes are not, and nor have they ever, been built around the fictional conceits of a concept. The classes are built around making the game fun. Any fictional conceits come a very, very far second place to that primary goal.

And that ignores the fact that the "fictional conceits" of psionics is an incredibly broad category. Do we mean psionics like Babylon 5 - where it's more or less just telepathic style powers? Or do we mean something like Dune where psionic powers can move you across the stars? Or psionics like Star Wars where it is very much just magic by another name and can do anything you want it to depending on the needs of plot?

So, I guess the basic question is, if you want to fit fictional conceits, "which fictional conceits"?

I would go with the with at least some restrictions, like Babylon 5. It enhances the feel of psionics to make it thematically limited.

 

[jasper]

Just reskin magic. It was a BOTHER during 1E as a different system.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Great. So she's a monk; no new class needed. Perhaps a subclass.


Why is the end result functionally different? Forget this trying to do different mechanics for the sake of being different for a moment, and consider how things could be built with the current framework.


Well, people constantly complain that martials are too limited, so I don't think that's a point in your favour.

Furthermore, caster is a person who uses magic-like powers. And by definition psion is that. (Unless they're a delusional person who only thinks they have powers but actually don't. Or a charlatan who pretends that they do.)

In D&D, "caster" is a person who casts spells.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, it really, really doesn't.

What is the Star Trek explanation for telepathy? Telepaths exist in the setting - Betazoids, Vulcans, and I'm sure others. When is it ever given even the slightest explanation?

Some alien species have brains that allow for psychic potential, which can be enhanced with training. Pretty straightforward.