D&D (2024) Psionics: What Do You Want?

1E psionic and 2E psionicist characters were practically spellcasters in all but name, just with a different resource management in manifesting/activating, relying on PSPs instead of Spell Slots, and the whole idea of power checks was from 2E, with 1E power activation just working if you could pay the points, and then either requiring a saving throw, or with attack/defense mode combat, a percent chance of success (basically a different kind of saving throw). 3E was more transparent in powers being analogous to spells, and 3.5 even more so. Complexity was always inherent in psionics, especially with 1E and 2E. 2E Psionicists could know up to 35 powers at level 20 - 2025 Psion caps out at 22 Spells, not counting any granted by their subclass, and 5E offers scalability on quite a few spells available to the new Psion.
Having psionics in 1E and being a Psionicist in 2E felt nothing like being a magic-user, cleric, druid, mage, priest or anything like them in my experience. The systems were very different in many ways, which you even outline, so I don't see how you can fee they were "practically spellcasters in all but name" but hey, you do you.
 

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My desire for psionics is:
  • It feels different than magic. It should have different mechanics than magic, and should not feel like a reskinned or augmented wizard or sorcerer.
  • It should evoke the tropes of Super Heroes and Force Users.
  • I prefer Power Points as a mechanic.
  • Psionic Offenses and Psionic Defenses should be utilized well.
  • Psionics should utilize few, but versatile, powers.
  • Psionics should be capable of overload.
I like this list. Thematically, it should feel different than magic. Ideally, there should be some separation between the two; there are effects that are unique to them. For example, magic can summon creatures while psionics can have greater flexibility with mental communication and influence.
 

Also, FWIW, 3e was critically different from spellcasting in other ways. The most notable was that different powers used different ability score. E.G. some powers were based on Int or WIS or Cha, but others were based on Con, DEX, or even Str. There were no dump stats, only dumped schools. It was the ultimate MAD.
That was only 3.0. In the XPH, they rightly changed it so you had all psions using Int, and then Wilders Cha and Psychic Warriors Wis. I think they had some idea with 3.0 that you'd get fightery egoists (psychometabolism) because they were Strength-based, but with BAB +1/2 levels, no armor proficiency, and d4 hp per level that didn't work. What they did in 3.5e to differentiate different disciplines was to make both a core psion/wilder power list as well as a list of about 2 powers per level for each discipline that were often stronger and/or more discipline-defining than the core list. So for example, the core list had energy bolt (basically a lightning bolt where you could choose energy type), but the kineticist instead had energy ball (same for fireball). There were also a fair number of powers that were Psychic Warrior-only (primarily self-buffs).
 

My desire for psionics is:
  • It feels different than magic. It should have different mechanics than magic, and should not feel like a reskinned or augmented wizard or sorcerer.
  • It should evoke the tropes of Super Heroes and Force Users. [..]
  • I prefer Power Points as a mechanic. Power Points are an iconic element of the Psionics world I grew to appreciate within D&D [..]
  • Psionic Offenses and Psionic Defenses should be utilized well. Those classic 10 offenses and defenses from the AD&D PHB should be utilized well. In my optimal use, they create a rock, paper, scissors style advantage/disadvantage when psionic PCs/NPCs fight as well as providing independent benefits.
  • Psionics should utilize few, but versatile, powers. [..]
  • Psionics should be capable of overload. Psionics should not have an upper cap that is like a finite limit as we see in spellcasting ... [..]
This is how the Psion and Psyknight work in Voidrunner's Codex. They are well designed. They don't do the rock/paper/scissors style psionic defenses and attacks, but otherwise it pretty much meets what you want in an A5E D&D context.
 

Having psionics in 1E and being a Psionicist in 2E felt nothing like being a magic-user, cleric, druid, mage, priest or anything like them in my experience. The systems were very different in many ways, which you even outline, so I don't see how you can fee they were "practically spellcasters in all but name" but hey, you do you.
Having played both, most powers were practically the same as spells with the exception of power checks (in a lot of cases replacing saving throws) and PSPs (in place of spell slots), and psionic combat (being a side system for attack/defense with entirely different rules). To say that the base systems for powers and spells are wildly different is semantics. That's not to knock 1E, 2E, or 2.5E psionics - I enjoyed them immensely, especially psionic combat, but the common system they've been working toward since 3E is an easier entry for players - but I wouldn't mind a more robust psionic combat system, in 5E, too.
 

I want similar to 2nd edition psionicist. The UA mystic actually came close, and its a shame they canned it.

In 5E, this would look like selecting domains of thematically linked powers (disciplines), which open up thematically linked choices of at-will abilities (devotions) and more powerful abilities that used short rest recharging points (sciences). Include some general attack/defense at-wills (ego whip, thought shield, etc).
 

The debates about psions as casters involves another secondary debate, which is rarely pursued clearly and directly, about what we think mechanics are in narrative terms. It's alluded to in some of SteamPunkette's discussion above, but I think it's worth getting out more clearly:

Sometimes we talk about having psionic powers represented by spells, and other times we talk about psionic powers simply as spells. These are two fairly different ideas about the narrative implications of game mechanics. There was a time when DnD made the distinction clear. For instance, giving a gith "Mage Hand" to represent a small psionic ability didn't mean they were casting a spell. It was simply that, given what "Mage Hand," the spell, could do, it was an easy way to represent a small telekinetic talent. Other spells were put to similar use, either on monsters or on character species. In this case, the game mechanics of the spell are being separated out from the "story" spell. Under this sense of things, if a wizard casts "Mage Hand" they are using a distinctive magical formula, with a concrete place in the story-world, while the psionic character is using their telekinetic powers and "Mage Hand" simply gives an easy mechanical form for that power to follow.

Unsurprisingly, this ends up fairly confusing, and eventually it produced the idea of “psionic spells,” where spells were being cast “but with your mind.” And it wasn’t unreasonable, under those circumstances, to don't we just think of the psion as "casting 'Mage Hand'"? (One could also argue that the gradual evolution shared spell lists across classes has contributed to a more general version of this confusion regarding spells/mechanics.) In any case, the current proposal for the psion pursues the second option, and this involves two slightly different ways of thinking about what spells are:

The first is the one given in the play-test materials: spells have a concrete existence in the world of the game, and the distinction is one of access. Thus the psion is simply doing magic (not some secret third thing) and calling on that magic through a different narrative route. "Fireball" is a magical power in the campaign setting, and different casters are all essentially calling up that "Fireball."

The second way, which often comes up in this thread in various forms, is that we treat spells not so much as real "things" in the world of the game, which the mechanics represent, but as mere effects. Thus, there is an effect, which involves bringing fire into the world and using it to damage your enemies. A wizard might chant a magical formula and fire from the elemental plains is drawn into a ball and hurled at his enemies. A psion might concentrate on the latent energy in air, exciting the molecules with his mind, until the room erupts in a ball of fire centered on his enemies. Two different activities in the story, but “casting ‘Fireball’” is a convenient way to represent the action in a round of combat, the damage it does, etc.

The difficulty really comes into play, unsurprisingly, when we talk about what we prefer. Some players are thinking primarily in terms of effects, but this often ends up eliding the two models above: “A fire ability is a fire ability, so why not just have everyone cast ‘Fireball’?” The idea that we have identical outcomes means that the story itself (ie. what is magic in your world, what are psionics in your world, etc.) is being adjusted as well.

Cards on the table: I prefer a version of the psion with a distinct suite of powers, something more like UA “Mystic” class. This is, in part, because I want the mechanics to mean in a particular way. In the game, there’s a magical formula for a spell called “Fireball.” When your wizard finally achieves enough power, he manages to scribe that formula in his book of spells, memorizes its complicated formula and gathers the ingredients, and when he’s in combat, he unleashes a fireball on his enemies. Likewise, I would like there to be a “Pyrokinesis” power for the psion, one that functions more like a skill—the psion’s ability to reach out with his mind to grasp the world and alter it in some way. If it’s a skill, then it can be honed or scaled in various ways: from setting small things on fire, to heating the metal in your enemies weapons, to making a campfire flare up, to raising the temperature in a room, to (eventually) creating a conflagration around your enemies. The fact that you can find a spell to match each of effects doesn’t mean that something distinctive about the psion isn’t lost when you simply make the psion use spells.

That is, the distinctiveness of the psion disappears to a degree that makes them not only mechanically redundant (if a wizard can cast most of the psion spells, what’s the point of the new class?) but also narratively redundant: the psion is just another spellcasting tradition in the world of the game. It’s also, I think, a problem for the narrative meaning of spell mechanics themselves. That version of “Fireball” in the previous paragraph either a) no longer names a special thing in your game world, but just names a mechanical effect available via a variety of powers. (Or, as I note above, you’ve made the psion just a mind-spell-caster.) Either way, I think you lose something important about how mechanics and story relate.
 

The difficulty really comes into play, unsurprisingly, when we talk about what we prefer. Some players are thinking primarily in terms of effects, but this often ends up eliding the two models above: “A fire ability is a fire ability, so why not just have everyone cast ‘Fireball’?” The idea that we have identical outcomes means that the story itself (ie. what is magic in your world, what are psionics in your world, etc.) is being adjusted as well.
For sure. Some tables use spells as strictly diegetic objects; both wizards and light clerics are casting fireball, like you described, and that is recognized as being the same identity within the fiction, even if the source and techniques for the two characters are different.

Items like spell scrolls also make the most sense when viewing spells as a strictly diegetic object.

Other table use spells as a catch-all mechanical container for any sort of special effect, often with broad reskinning. This is the source of "use the valor bard as a warlord" ideas, as an example. Or having psions as spell slot neo-Vancian casters, just with a different narrative skin on top.

Whether or not an individual likes or dislikes using the standard caster framework generally correlates with where an individual's preferences lie on this divide.
 

The debates about psions as casters involves another secondary debate, which is rarely pursued clearly and directly, about what we think mechanics are in narrative terms. It's alluded to in some of SteamPunkette's discussion above, but I think it's worth getting out more clearly:

Sometimes we talk about having psionic powers represented by spells, and other times we talk about psionic powers simply as spells. These are two fairly different ideas about the narrative implications of game mechanics. There was a time when DnD made the distinction clear. For instance, giving a gith "Mage Hand" to represent a small psionic ability didn't mean they were casting a spell. It was simply that, given what "Mage Hand," the spell, could do, it was an easy way to represent a small telekinetic talent. Other spells were put to similar use, either on monsters or on character species. In this case, the game mechanics of the spell are being separated out from the "story" spell. Under this sense of things, if a wizard casts "Mage Hand" they are using a distinctive magical formula, with a concrete place in the story-world, while the psionic character is using their telekinetic powers and "Mage Hand" simply gives an easy mechanical form for that power to follow.

Unsurprisingly, this ends up fairly confusing, and eventually it produced the idea of “psionic spells,” where spells were being cast “but with your mind.” And it wasn’t unreasonable, under those circumstances, to don't we just think of the psion as "casting 'Mage Hand'"? (One could also argue that the gradual evolution shared spell lists across classes has contributed to a more general version of this confusion regarding spells/mechanics.) In any case, the current proposal for the psion pursues the second option, and this involves two slightly different ways of thinking about what spells are:

The first is the one given in the play-test materials: spells have a concrete existence in the world of the game, and the distinction is one of access. Thus the psion is simply doing magic (not some secret third thing) and calling on that magic through a different narrative route. "Fireball" is a magical power in the campaign setting, and different casters are all essentially calling up that "Fireball."

The second way, which often comes up in this thread in various forms, is that we treat spells not so much as real "things" in the world of the game, which the mechanics represent, but as mere effects. Thus, there is an effect, which involves bringing fire into the world and using it to damage your enemies. A wizard might chant a magical formula and fire from the elemental plains is drawn into a ball and hurled at his enemies. A psion might concentrate on the latent energy in air, exciting the molecules with his mind, until the room erupts in a ball of fire centered on his enemies. Two different activities in the story, but “casting ‘Fireball’” is a convenient way to represent the action in a round of combat, the damage it does, etc.

The difficulty really comes into play, unsurprisingly, when we talk about what we prefer. Some players are thinking primarily in terms of effects, but this often ends up eliding the two models above: “A fire ability is a fire ability, so why not just have everyone cast ‘Fireball’?” The idea that we have identical outcomes means that the story itself (ie. what is magic in your world, what are psionics in your world, etc.) is being adjusted as well.

Cards on the table: I prefer a version of the psion with a distinct suite of powers, something more like UA “Mystic” class. This is, in part, because I want the mechanics to mean in a particular way. In the game, there’s a magical formula for a spell called “Fireball.” When your wizard finally achieves enough power, he manages to scribe that formula in his book of spells, memorizes its complicated formula and gathers the ingredients, and when he’s in combat, he unleashes a fireball on his enemies. Likewise, I would like there to be a “Pyrokinesis” power for the psion, one that functions more like a skill—the psion’s ability to reach out with his mind to grasp the world and alter it in some way. If it’s a skill, then it can be honed or scaled in various ways: from setting small things on fire, to heating the metal in your enemies weapons, to making a campfire flare up, to raising the temperature in a room, to (eventually) creating a conflagration around your enemies. The fact that you can find a spell to match each of effects doesn’t mean that something distinctive about the psion isn’t lost when you simply make the psion use spells.

That is, the distinctiveness of the psion disappears to a degree that makes them not only mechanically redundant (if a wizard can cast most of the psion spells, what’s the point of the new class?) but also narratively redundant: the psion is just another spellcasting tradition in the world of the game. It’s also, I think, a problem for the narrative meaning of spell mechanics themselves. That version of “Fireball” in the previous paragraph either a) no longer names a special thing in your game world, but just names a mechanical effect available via a variety of powers. (Or, as I note above, you’ve made the psion just a mind-spell-caster.) Either way, I think you lose something important about how mechanics and story relate.
The issue I have with this line of thinking is that psionics gets separated as being distinct mechanics and abilities from magic, but allows nine other classes to use magic the same way with the same spells only using "the fiction" to separate them. Nobody bats an eye that a wizard uses a spell book and formula to cast a blast of fire, the druid calls on the primal spirit of the sun, the cleric prays to the God of fire, the warlock learned it from their devil daddy, the sorcerer just does it because dragons and the artificer built a flame thrower with spare junk. They all get fireball, 3rd level evocation, 8d6 fire save for half.

In a perfect world, all caster classes would have their own unique magic system and list of effects. No two classes would share fireball unless they both used wizard magic. They wouldn't even share the same mechanics, with spell slots, points, ability checks, exhaustion levels, or mana all fueling a different class each.

Of course, that perfect world would have a 10,000 page PHB to accommodate all those unique classes with unique magic, or each class would have 8 spells per level tops with a lot of cuts to each list. How many different mechanical expressions of a blast of fire can you make?

So since we already accept* that the bard, cleric, druid, ranger, paladin, sorcerer, wizard, warlock and artificer are all using the same mechanics and pools of effects, I see no issue adding psion to the list.

* Obviously, not everyone does. Many would like several of those classes removed, made nonmagical, or using different mechanics. I don't think anyone is outright banning them because they use the same magic system of the others.
 

... 1E psionic and 2E psionicist characters were practically spellcasters in all but name, just with a different resource management in manifesting/activating, relying on PSPs instead of Spell Slots, and the whole idea of power checks was from 2E, with 1E power activation just working if you could pay the points, ...
In addition, 1st Ed psionics was an addition to an existing character (fighter, wizard, etc...).
 

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