Psions, underpowered? Your experience?

[The Souljourner]

I'm thinking of being a halfling Psion in a campaign that's coming up. However, looking at what they get, it seems like past the first few levels, you need to have every stat at some ridiculously high number or you get no variety in your choice of powers.

Let me explain:

Sorcerer - everything is based on Cha. That one stat determines level of spells he can cast and what the DC is on all of them.

Psion - approximately 1/6 of all powers are based on each stat. DCs are based on the appropriate stat, as is the level of power you can take.

Using 32 point buy (a pretty decent number of points in any campaign)

Sorcerer: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 18

Gets +4 to all DCs, can get up to 8th level spells (and 9th with just a single stat raise).

Now the same stats for a Psion:

Gets +4 DC to Telepathy powers, +2 for two others, +1 to two others, and can't manifest powers in the last. Is restricted to 4th level powers in two disciplines and second level powers in two others. Above 4th, he can *only* take powers from Telepathy.

This seems terribly unbalanced. A Psion more than any other class, even monks and paladins, needs every single stat to be good. They even mention that it in the book.

So my question is, for those of you who have played Psions, how much of a restriction is this? How well do they work in your campaigns? I'm going to be in a party of about 6 players, fairly hack and slash, say around 75%, getting the equivalent of 30 point buy, more or less.

Thanks,

-The Souljourner

 

[Kraedin]

That's about right, but that's not the only reason psions are weak. You have to remember that thier spells aren't as good as arcane spells, and they cast fewer per day than wizards or sorcerers.

But that's in a "standard" dnd campain. In a political, intreigue campain, a Telepath can be the most important member of a party, with the Seer a close second.

I suggest you check out If Thoughts Could Kill. It's a psionics adventure/supplement published by Malhavoc press that's written by Bruce Cordell. It includes some variant rules that beef up the psion to playable levels. Also, investigate The Minds Eye on the WotC website. It includes new psionic feats, powers, and PrCs.

 

[kreynolds]

Psion is just a fancy shmancy way of saying...

...Wizard.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you want your psion to be more playable, go to Monte Cook's site and buy If Thoughts Could Kill. It costs $5 and was written by Bruce Cordell himself. It answers all your concerns, except psionic combat (which BC is fixing in an accessory called Mindscapes, but you'll have to wait until February for that).

Krey, can you find a wizard who can manifest Psychofeedback? I didn't think so.

 

[kreynolds]

Krey, can you find a wizard who can manifest Psychofeedback? I didn't think so.

What's your point? (Psi), can you find a psion that can Detect Magic? I didn't think so. Besides, I sure can find a wizard that can manifest Psychofeedback. A Wizard/Psion.

In the end, it's all the same. Just different dice. Flavor is really the only thing that separates the two. I don't dislike psionics. I just don't see it as better or worse than magic.

 

[DM_Matt]

yup. Psions are useless...

I would like to add that Psionic Combat is quite complicated, not all that worthwhile, and more of a liability than a benefit. the only good psionic combat mode is mind blast, and thats OVERPOWERED. I would just convert it to an L6 power (the usual cost is as an L5, but as I said, its unbalanced).

We once had a judge-type character in the party who was a seer12/pally1. Because he had so few powers, he barely could to the seer part well. His one and only combat option was disintegrate. Every round, it was either disintegrate, or, hasted, disintegrate twice, or, having cast disintegrate too many times, run and hide.

However, with the ITCK version AND all the stuff form the minds eye (esp Resculpt Mind..allows you to replace 5 combat modes with 5 feats and one combat ode over the course of your career...great if your DM doesn't like Psionic Combat because its silly), Psions are indeed playable. There will definitely be some psionic villains in my next gaming session.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Stuff and nonsense.

Oh, there are issues, but the single biggest problem with psions is people who try to play them like sorcerers.

 

[Malin Genie]

Stuff and nonsense.

Oh, there are issues, but the single biggest problem with psions is people who try to play them like sorcerers.

Could you elaborate?

I once created a Rogue/Telepath for a campaign which never eventuated, and certainly noticed that the Psion has good skills (unlike the sorceror, who's more of a one-trick pony) but other than making use of that, how else can a psion be played to advantage?

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Congradulations! You have entered the suck-filled world of PSIONICS!! You too can blow all your PP in a single combat and be useless for the rest of the game! Astound your group with your inability to take the most important powers! Wield strange looking psi attacks that pick you out of a crowd of thousands, yet bounce off the WILL save of a 1/2 level commoner!

Played 5 levels of Telepath, 7 of Savant. Min/Maxed psions are almost as usefull as a Bard in a party of 2. Definitly get If Thoughts Could Kill if you want to play a worthwhile psion.

Heh, i'm surprised JLXC hasn't posted here yet.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Oh, there are issues, but the single biggest problem with psions is people who try to play them like sorcerers.

Psions aren't burn mages. They don't scale, so try something else with them. Yeah, you need ITCK for those important powers.

See the Wizard's board, it's better now that Wizard's is taking an active interest in psionics. Also see the Mind's Eye feature at Wizards.