Publishers Action Plans to d20 Slump?

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Not as publishers, because obviously Joe targeted only the print publishers with his remarks. Also because POD and pdf publishers are two leagues down from the kind of publishers he's talking about (only exception would be Malhavoc, but he's a print publisher as well) and pdf publishing is a whole different ball game from print publishing (smaller and different customer base, etc.). I have absolutely no problem with a fan attitude, but a reply from a small time pdf publisher that reads like another sales pitch in a tread about print publisher rufles my feathers the wrong way...

What i'm doing here? Well, i'm primarily a fan, and secondly an online 'retailer' (i have a lot of D20/OGL products in stock but currently a small and private customer base). Hell, if people would rather i shut my trap i'm more than happy to comply ;-)

print publisher != pdf publisher
-= high stakes vs. low stakes =-
-=[ physical vs. electronic ]=-

ps. Dana and i ruffle each other's feather the wrong way, so ignore us ;-)

Then allow me to clarify some things for you.

I've been publishing material since 1992, both inside and outside the RPG industry. It has ranged from novels and nonfiction that were available in bookstores to gimmick materials that ended up in Spencer's to a line of 18 rpg products. I've dealt with all three options used in the RPG industry as a means of publishing; print, pod, and pdf.

The products I do now are released on PDF because they are either not worth trying to sell on paper until they are merged into some more significant project in the pipeline (Runic Weapons & Bargain Wheels), are test marketing products awaiting the decision to produce a full length product (The Gamer's Cookbook, and yes, it is an actual cookbook), or are of such an expansive and ambitious nature, a print release currently appears to be too expensive an option for the market to bear (Big Bang). And even though Big Bang isn't particularly likely to end up on paper via pod or print run, it does sell well in local stores on CD-ROM, and a few of the compiled sample copies (binders presenting all the volumes, not just the freebie online sampler) I've provided to stores have fetched some ridiculous prices (though not high enough to warrant actually publishing them in that fashion... yet).

So I am not only in a position of relatively unique experience, but I'm also someone who is taking risks outside the boxes of quantity and quality to try new ideas not only for products, but for ways of conducting business as well. And while you may consider my initial reply to be a sales pitch, it isn't. I was making it clear why the product line is successful, making it clear that the success isn't based on one particular factor, and pointing out why such a successful product isn't yet on paper. If people are intrigued enough to take a look at the products so that they can evaluate whether or not a similar product model would work for them, then so be it.

Now, mr. online retailer, if you've got all kinds of D20/OGL product in stock, why does your site only list 4 core D&D products from WotC? And since you've stated you're acting as nothing more than a fanboy, why are you posting to a thread that requested publisher responses? You're not a publisher, so I can't imagine you even have any hope you'll gain anything or be able to offer any insight.

 

[spacecrime.com]

A few thoughts.

I find it interesting that one of trancejeremy's most important measurements of value is page count. (I have to tread carefully here, because I don't agree with that choice but I also don't want to dismiss it based on my own prejudices.) If that is a common buying strategy, then it does make more sense for a publisher to spend two cents a word on a 128 page book than four cents a word on a 64 page book. At that point, game writers have a choice to make -- expend more effort for the same amount of money, spread out the same effort over more material, or find something else to do.

If Jeremy uses a common buying strategy, then that strategy pushes the market in a direction that makes it harder to create what I consider to be "good" writing. As a consumer and a writer, I feel like this is a bad thing. As a retailer, I'm trying to be open to the idea that this is one case where the customer is by definition right.

My second thought is that I don't think a "flood the market" strategy necessarily helps or hurts a publisher. Yes, Mongoose puts out a lot of products every month, and I'm sure there are stores where retailers don't buy the books of other publishers because they want all the Mongoose books. But it goes the other way, too. I don't have any Mongoose books on my shelf. Nothing against Matt and his gang, but the books didn't live up to my sales expectations and I didn't want to play a pick-and-choose guessing game as to what might sell and what won't. I moved out the Mongoose lines and focused on other products. I have no idea how many retailers have dropped Mongoose products versus how many retailers are going full line on them, but I have a feeling it mostly evens out in the end.

Other than that, I'm pretty much in agreement with Mongoose_Matt. If your sales aren't matching your expectations, it's not your competitor's fault. There is something wrong with your product, your marketing, and/or your expectations, and the only way you're going to get significantly better sales is to figure out why customers aren't buying your product first and do something about it.

 

[Cergorach]

@Nicole & Chris:
Thanks for the response, i'll try to sort this out myself ("small" distributor, maybe they got confused). Just wanted to get the facts straight.

@Dana:
If you want we can move the dick measuring contest to private, please feel free to contact me trough e-mail. Otherwise shssss...

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

@Dana:
If you want we can move the dick measuring contest to private, please feel free to contact me trough e-mail. Otherwise shssss...

How exactly is correcting your mistakes, incorrect assumptions, and bad judgment a "dick measuring contest"?

 

[Nikchick]

How exactly is correcting your mistakes, incorrect assumptions, and bad judgment a "dick measuring contest"?

It could be the sarcastic and adversarial tone, or perhaps your insistence that Cergorach (an established member of the EN community) has less insight or right to voice his opinion in this thread than you (a relative newcomer to this particular forum) do.

I'm familiar with you from your GPA days, Dana, and that's pretty much all I have to judge you on besides your conduct here, but I have to agree with Cergorach on this one: you're better served taking your personality-based objections off the boards, especially if you don't want this to be perceived as some sort of pissing contest.

Respectfully,
Nicole

 

[philreed]

I'm familiar with you from your GPA days, Dana, and that's pretty much all I have to judge you on besides your conduct here, but I have to agree with Cergorach on this one: you're better served taking your personality-based objections off the boards, especially if you don't want this to be perceived as some sort of pissing contest.

Nicole, you're my new hero.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Hi guys,
Lengthy material cut...

The future is bright. The future is d20.

Mongoose Matt, I would like to say thank you for your commentary on this board. It wasn't some quick tossed out statement and made a lot of sense. As I've noted, I personaly have that love/hate relatationship with many of the Mongoose Products because of editing and the recent 3.0/3.5 flubs. In terms of 3.5 hits vs. 3.0 backsales, I'll take the word of a professional any day of the week over what me and my buddies argue back and forth about. There is such a thing as reality.

I appreciate the time that the publishers take to use EN World to inform and update and this post that I've quoted is another example of how the publishers make or break their relationships with the fans.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

It could be the sarcastic and adversarial tone, or perhaps your insistence that Cergorach (an established member of the EN community) has less insight or right to voice his opinion in this thread than you (a relative newcomer to this particular forum) do.

I'm familiar with you from your GPA days, Dana, and that's pretty much all I have to judge you on besides your conduct here, but I have to agree with Cergorach on this one: you're better served taking your personality-based objections off the boards, especially if you don't want this to be perceived as some sort of pissing contest.

Respectfully,
Nicole

What personality-based objections? I made it quite clear that Cergorach was incorrect about his assumptions I am running nothing more than a pdf shop. In another thread he's busy telling people things like counterfeiting and embezzlement aren't stealing because no one gets charged with stealing (never mind the fact that stealing isn't a crime to be charged with to begin with) and that downloading pirated products isn't any sort of crime, doesn't harm publishers, etc.

And as for my insistence, tell me, since Cergorach is a retailer and merely participating as a fanboy, what insight do you think he can offer into what publishers are doing in response to the D20 slump?

 

[Cergorach]

Domo arigato Nicole-chan.

and that downloading pirated products isn't any sort of crime, doesn't harm publishers, etc.

Please don't say things that i didn't say, thank you.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Domo arigato Nicole-chan.


Please don't say things that i didn't say, thank you.

Gee, let's see:
"That's not correct, look up the definition of stealing in a dictionary, it talks about taking something away and not about the possible lose of revenue. Copying files doesn't take something away. Copying files or scanning books is considered a copyright infringement."

"I'm not saying that copying is the right thing to do, i'm just saying it's NOT stealing (as defined by the english dictionary), "

"Some could say "I'm a pirate because of idealogical reasons."

You said them.