Publishers Action Plans to d20 Slump?
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
JoeGKushner said:
First, I'll point out my flagship product line, Big Bang: The Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons, so you'll have some clue what I'm talking about.
For quite some time, I have been a big fan of the modern, technothriller, and near future/cyberpunk genres and over the years, I have collected a vast number of game books related to firearms. I was never happy with them and I finally decided about a year ago to start writing a gun book the way I want it to be.
Like everyone else, I believe in the quality over quantity philosophy. However, I don't particularly consider whoring up a book with a pretty layout to necessarily be a sign of quality. I consider content to be the quality. After all, all of those pretty borders in your pretty books really don't have any effect on what you picture in your mind as you play your game.
So I have gone for quality. The gun books in my RPG collection rely on a paragraph or two to provide you information. I put time in my research and end up generating a page of historical and technical information about every weapon. Quite a few ended up with pages detailing them. I also gather real world data and provide that as well. Things like weight, length, magazine capacities, accuracy ratings, muzzle velocity, manufacturer, nations using or making the weapon, etc. Does this equate to quality? The multitude of 4 & 5 star reviews and lack of lower rated reviews seems to indicate so, which I'm sure, is much to the chagrin of Chris Pramus, since a book he'd probably consider to have "dodgy design, terrible editing, mediocre art, and no graphic design to speak of" gets such rave reviews.
Anyway, it sounds great for a D20 book, right? Perfect for any GM who has to deal with a gun nut rules lawyer, right? Well, it isn't a D20 book. It's a multi-system book, supporting several known game systems, including D20. So while D20 sales may be slumping, I also get to nibble on other pieces of the pie. And I am constantly looking for new ways to nibble on other parts of the pie as well. Of course, I'm not the first person to think of this, since there are a number of dual-system D20 books out there. However, I am the first to take the idea to the extent of supporting 4 game systems.
Last important thing I've done is continued support. Go down the list of publishers who have done gun books and count all of the ones who did more than one gun book (not counting revised editions) and you can count them all on one hand, and you'll have three fingers left. Virtually every last one has done one book and put the subject behind them. SJG is one of the exceptions, having done two gun books (High Tech & Modern Firepower). My company is the other exception, with five products in the series, and I have no intention of stopping.
This all adds up to a series of products that in a few short months has gained a nearly cultish following. I announce a new volume, and within a few hours, there's a large burst of sales.
So there are my secrets: pick a niche people are unhappy about or have demanded more for, provide quality content, continued support, and there's more than one royalty-free game system out there for me to put to good use.
pogre
Legend
I believe the cranking 'em out strategy still is very valid. The turnover in the market is still very high and shelf life just is not that long. New stuff, sometimes even poorly done new stuff, seems to outsell old stuff.
A cool idea with a lot of buzz is going to generate sales, even if the book is poorly executed. The shot-gun approach spreads a publisher's risk and if they get one hit out of three, with reduced production values, they stay solvent. It may seem like a short-sighted approach, but considering how purchase channels currently operate, I think NEW is still more important than GOOD. Spending publishing time and effort at getting more product out the door, as opposed to reassuring quality, plays into the current distribution stream.
* I do not in anyway endorse cranking out as many books as possible at the cost of quality - I just think it still works.
A cool idea with a lot of buzz is going to generate sales, even if the book is poorly executed. The shot-gun approach spreads a publisher's risk and if they get one hit out of three, with reduced production values, they stay solvent. It may seem like a short-sighted approach, but considering how purchase channels currently operate, I think NEW is still more important than GOOD. Spending publishing time and effort at getting more product out the door, as opposed to reassuring quality, plays into the current distribution stream.
* I do not in anyway endorse cranking out as many books as possible at the cost of quality - I just think it still works.
johnsemlak
First Post
First of all, I would like to salut Green Ronin's high standard of quality. Hammer and Helm has been easily my most used sourcebook (I just finished a campaign playing a dwarf character) and I have found that book to be excellent. Also, GR's quality is evidenced by a solid track record in their reviews and thir success at the ENnies.
However, I may have to agree with Pogre's remark that the 'quantity over quality' strategy may make business sense, so I'm not sure how valid it is to criticize it.
Also, I find trancejeremy's list of factors in what makes one buy a product very similar to my own. Most importantly, the company that makes a product is, perhaps unfortunately, low on the list.
The fact is the author, product focus/topic, and other factors are very important for me in deciding what book to purchase. Sometimes, this will lead me or someone else to pruchase ap book that is perhaps of lower 'quality'.
For example, GR's Skull and Bones is getting a lot of raves in reviews right now. I haven't seen it yet, but it appears to be a very high-quality product. However, if I buy a pirate-based sourcebook, one thing may make me stop buying it--It's focus on real-world piracy as opposed something more in line with D&D fantasy (something I could drop easily, into Greyhawk for example). Because of that, I may look elsewhere. It's not that Skull and Bone's poor quality, it's just perhaps not for me. (though I may pick up S&B eventually though
)
Author is very important to me. I noted on another post in anohter thread that many of the well known authors get published by numerous companies. Mike Mearls is published by countless companies. Gary Gygax has been published (for d20) by Troll Lord, Necromancer, & Mongoose. Sean Reynolds has been published by Malhavoc Press and has a work he co-authored coming out from Troll Lord right now. Ed Greenwood put out a book for Kenzer and will have a new campaign setting published by Fast Forward Games. I, and other fans I believe, will give these authors a look whoever publishes them.
Fast Forward, often criticized for the low quality game mechanics in their products, still continue to get big names associated iwth their products, e.g. Ed Greenwood and also Robert Salvatore. I'm not aware of sales figures but I can only imagine that this will translate into sales.
Also, one factor on buying a product that hasn't been mentioned here is availability. Consumers have to have access to a product to buy it. In very VERY LIMITED experience looking stores during my visits home, I have got the impresstion that the publishers that are most available are (besides WotC of course) Malhavoc, Sword and Sorcery, and Kenzer. That is, I walk into a shop and a wide variety of their products are on the shelf, and there are multiple copies of their premier titles. I haven't noticed that Green Ronin's titles stand out more than those of many other publishers, such as Bastion, Mongoose, FFE, FFG, etc.
IMHO the only d20 company that truely stands out is Malhavoc Press. They have consistant and well known authors (either by Monte or by others who have authored numerous works for WotC), their quality (of game machanics, flavor, writing) is respected, and their products are widely available.
Speaking of quality, what is quality in a d20 product anyway? Solid and balanced game mechanics? Flavor? Quality writing? Good appearence, art, and production values (binding that lasts for more than a day for example)? Editing? The best companies try to combine all of them, obviously, but there nevertheless seems to be some disagreement on which of the above (if any) are most important.
Finally, one thing I find a bit negative in a thread like this is the idea that consumers (i.e. fans) are at fault for choosing shoddy products over quality ones. Isn't it the job of the publisher to win over it's customers?
However, I may have to agree with Pogre's remark that the 'quantity over quality' strategy may make business sense, so I'm not sure how valid it is to criticize it.
Also, I find trancejeremy's list of factors in what makes one buy a product very similar to my own. Most importantly, the company that makes a product is, perhaps unfortunately, low on the list.
The fact is the author, product focus/topic, and other factors are very important for me in deciding what book to purchase. Sometimes, this will lead me or someone else to pruchase ap book that is perhaps of lower 'quality'.
For example, GR's Skull and Bones is getting a lot of raves in reviews right now. I haven't seen it yet, but it appears to be a very high-quality product. However, if I buy a pirate-based sourcebook, one thing may make me stop buying it--It's focus on real-world piracy as opposed something more in line with D&D fantasy (something I could drop easily, into Greyhawk for example). Because of that, I may look elsewhere. It's not that Skull and Bone's poor quality, it's just perhaps not for me. (though I may pick up S&B eventually though
)Author is very important to me. I noted on another post in anohter thread that many of the well known authors get published by numerous companies. Mike Mearls is published by countless companies. Gary Gygax has been published (for d20) by Troll Lord, Necromancer, & Mongoose. Sean Reynolds has been published by Malhavoc Press and has a work he co-authored coming out from Troll Lord right now. Ed Greenwood put out a book for Kenzer and will have a new campaign setting published by Fast Forward Games. I, and other fans I believe, will give these authors a look whoever publishes them.
Fast Forward, often criticized for the low quality game mechanics in their products, still continue to get big names associated iwth their products, e.g. Ed Greenwood and also Robert Salvatore. I'm not aware of sales figures but I can only imagine that this will translate into sales.
Also, one factor on buying a product that hasn't been mentioned here is availability. Consumers have to have access to a product to buy it. In very VERY LIMITED experience looking stores during my visits home, I have got the impresstion that the publishers that are most available are (besides WotC of course) Malhavoc, Sword and Sorcery, and Kenzer. That is, I walk into a shop and a wide variety of their products are on the shelf, and there are multiple copies of their premier titles. I haven't noticed that Green Ronin's titles stand out more than those of many other publishers, such as Bastion, Mongoose, FFE, FFG, etc.
IMHO the only d20 company that truely stands out is Malhavoc Press. They have consistant and well known authors (either by Monte or by others who have authored numerous works for WotC), their quality (of game machanics, flavor, writing) is respected, and their products are widely available.
Speaking of quality, what is quality in a d20 product anyway? Solid and balanced game mechanics? Flavor? Quality writing? Good appearence, art, and production values (binding that lasts for more than a day for example)? Editing? The best companies try to combine all of them, obviously, but there nevertheless seems to be some disagreement on which of the above (if any) are most important.
Finally, one thing I find a bit negative in a thread like this is the idea that consumers (i.e. fans) are at fault for choosing shoddy products over quality ones. Isn't it the job of the publisher to win over it's customers?
Last edited:
Cergorach
The Laughing One
Maybe i'm rude, maybe i'm not, but i don't think that pdf or POD publishers should enter this discussion as publishers. Especially not as just another sales pitch for their products.
Although the quality issue is also something of a hot cookie for pdf publishers, it seems that this discussion is aimed more at printed products. Becoming a print publisher is a lot harder than becomming a pdf publisher, so there will be a lot more pdf publishers than print publishers...
I do think that A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe would make a nice addition to the Arcane Vista series from Green Ronin. I don't think that Bane of the Salt Fen Lich could compare to Necromancer or Privateer adventures or that Big Bang can compete with Ultramoder Firearms.
What i'm wondering is that by flooding the market certain publishers get a big foothold in stores, what does this mean for publishers that don't produce a dozen titles a month?
The flooding publishers get more money from the retailers, and get more shelf space, thus bigger exposure. How to combat this?
For retailers it's very frustrating, because if they don't carry flooding publishers, customers will get them elsewhere and the retailers will loose money in a business where making money is precarious at best...
ps. Chris, i got a reply from the distributor that the Core Mutants and Masterminds book can't be ordered anymore. Is it being reprinted or something?
Although the quality issue is also something of a hot cookie for pdf publishers, it seems that this discussion is aimed more at printed products. Becoming a print publisher is a lot harder than becomming a pdf publisher, so there will be a lot more pdf publishers than print publishers...
I do think that A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe would make a nice addition to the Arcane Vista series from Green Ronin. I don't think that Bane of the Salt Fen Lich could compare to Necromancer or Privateer adventures or that Big Bang can compete with Ultramoder Firearms.
What i'm wondering is that by flooding the market certain publishers get a big foothold in stores, what does this mean for publishers that don't produce a dozen titles a month?
The flooding publishers get more money from the retailers, and get more shelf space, thus bigger exposure. How to combat this?
For retailers it's very frustrating, because if they don't carry flooding publishers, customers will get them elsewhere and the retailers will loose money in a business where making money is precarious at best...
ps. Chris, i got a reply from the distributor that the Core Mutants and Masterminds book can't be ordered anymore. Is it being reprinted or something?
Hi guys,
There are always different perspectives, especially in an industry as diverse and imaginative as ours. The only people who can truly say whether the d20 market as a whole is slumping are the distributors - Those-On-High-Who-Oversee-All. However, from conversations we have had any shrinkage in the d20 market as a whole has been minor. What we are beginning to see is a whittling away of companies who, for a variety of reasons, are seeing their own sales slump - and this is where we have seen the loudest noises about as shrinking market come from. The days of any new company hitting the market and automatically selling 2k, 3k, 4k or more are gone. Companies are tending to regard first month sales of 1,500 copies as not just acceptable, but good, and if a book sells anything more than double figures beyond the 2-3 month mark then it is surely something a bit special. However, even the 'larger' and more established companies in the d20 market are finding this difficult and first and only month sales of 7-800 are not becoming unusual. Once you get down to these numbers a company will find itself in the position of having to a) greatly reduce costs (and many companies, we know, are burning money like it is going out of fashion) and b) getting the bosses to quit the company full-time and get day jobs if, indeed, they did not have them already. This is, of course, a downward spiral as attention is no longer concentrated 100% on the company's activities but it would be rare for a company to completely disappear - at this level, a company can be sustained on earnings from day jobs and is released from the burden of salaries. Basically, it can become a credit card company. That said, it is still possible to hit, say, the 5k mark on first month sales and continue with a sizeable percentage of that every month for two years or more - that is not the sign of a shrinking market.
In effect, what is happening is that many companies (and, again, I am talking about the larger guys here) are finding their position in the market slipping and their sales evaporating. There are excpetions - Privateer, for example, are coming on in leaps and bounds. Keep an eye on those guys. Others are finding their d20 market disappearing and are being propped up by other markets they are established in, such as card and board games.
As to Joe's orginial question, it does not matter whether there is a slump or not in the market - any company should be constantly striving to push itself forward. As the saying goes, a business either moves forwards or backwards, it never stays still. To this end, companies should;
1. Diversify - those more established companies I mentioned earlier surviving on their board and card games are a perfect example. Without the other strongs to their bows they would be laying off staff left, right and centre, and potentially leaving the market altogether. Diversification is good. And you may just find there is something more profitable than RPGs out there (surely not!).
2. Expand their markets - so very, very few RPG companies are getting into mainstream book stores in any meaningful way (that is, not a few hundred copies of a few books getting into the chain but thousands). Now, the entry barrier into the mainstream market is staggering and exceedingly difficult to overcome. Add to that the whole problem with returns and not actually selling the books you though you have, and many companies seem to not even try. The mainstream market is a very different animal than the hobby market but companies continually address the latter. Those with their heads screwed on right are a) actively producing books _for_ the mainstream market and b) making sure they avoid the returns problem.
3. Professionalism - this is a bit of a harsh term and is not quite what I mean. It also covers a multitude of sins. However, many publishers are still making the most elementary mistakes on their front covers, many give no thought to marketing and many just seem to talk to no one else in the business. There are some very simple steps that can be taken to improve relations with customers, retailers and distributors that are just being ignored. It is not rocket science and goes a long way to helping sustain sales.
4. Efficiency - many companies are shedding money when they simply have no need (and I am not talking about trimming down the odd cent per word for freelancers). I would advise anyone to take a good, long hard look at their costs and see where savings can be made - even if it means, ultimately, more work. We know what some companies are paying for various services and we are not surprised some of them are having trouble. Harsh, but true.
As to Joe's point about 3.5 causing a backlog of older books, in our experience this has just not been the case - however, many companies following the 3 month sales cycle will not notice the difference and may be tempted to blame flat back catalogue sales on this. Be careful who you listen to here.
To your final point, Joe, I would not worry. There will always be a place for good talent in the d20 market - I cannot imagine Mr Mearls will ever have a problem finding paying work and if he does, he should talk to me As another example, we are currently in negotitations with a couple of writers that consistently get good praise for their d20 work, with a view to bringing them on as full-time staff members. So, not only will they have a constant venue for their work, they will be able to support themselves and their families with it too. Best of both worlds.
Napftor: You make an interesting point about publishers needing to dig deeper into their own niches. However, I am not certain that it is correct There are many angles to this, such as a company turning away from diversification in order to concentrate on what it knows and whether players really want full-spanning gaming worlds or prefer to create their own. We have a few products coming out soon that have been designed specifically to test this hypothesis, so I will let you know!
Finally, I have never bought into the idea (and this is mentioned again and again on the vaunted 'industry' forums) that the lesser companies - those start ups, perhaps, who are putting out their first book on their credit cards - are dragging down the entire industry, forcing good products off the shelves.
Poppycock. Utter poppycock. If you are producing a book that you believe is first class but it is not getting the sales you expected (and this includes healthy back catalogue sales beyond the three month mark) then you are doing something wrong. It is that simple. I do not believe for _one_ minute that the gaming public, our paying cutsomers, are stupid. I do not believe they throw their money around with no regard to what they are buying. They really are buying the books they want and are doing so month after month. If you are a company that is experiencing dwindling sales, don't blame other companies - it is something you are doing that is wrong, be it in production, quality, design, marketing, strategy or whatever. But don't blame the little guy (if you are having trouble matching his sales, you are in serious trouble anyway) and don't blame the larger guys who are doing 80% of things right. No one runs their business but you - and the customers we sell to know exactly what they want and how they want it (it is not as if getting feedback was ever a problem in this industry!).
So, if you are worried about your favourite hobby going down the plug hole, don't be. d20 has still got plenty of room to expand, grow and develop. Niches will be filled and new ones developed, even as the game system is taken into areas no one has yet found.
The future is bright. The future is d20.
There are always different perspectives, especially in an industry as diverse and imaginative as ours. The only people who can truly say whether the d20 market as a whole is slumping are the distributors - Those-On-High-Who-Oversee-All. However, from conversations we have had any shrinkage in the d20 market as a whole has been minor. What we are beginning to see is a whittling away of companies who, for a variety of reasons, are seeing their own sales slump - and this is where we have seen the loudest noises about as shrinking market come from. The days of any new company hitting the market and automatically selling 2k, 3k, 4k or more are gone. Companies are tending to regard first month sales of 1,500 copies as not just acceptable, but good, and if a book sells anything more than double figures beyond the 2-3 month mark then it is surely something a bit special. However, even the 'larger' and more established companies in the d20 market are finding this difficult and first and only month sales of 7-800 are not becoming unusual. Once you get down to these numbers a company will find itself in the position of having to a) greatly reduce costs (and many companies, we know, are burning money like it is going out of fashion) and b) getting the bosses to quit the company full-time and get day jobs if, indeed, they did not have them already. This is, of course, a downward spiral as attention is no longer concentrated 100% on the company's activities but it would be rare for a company to completely disappear - at this level, a company can be sustained on earnings from day jobs and is released from the burden of salaries. Basically, it can become a credit card company. That said, it is still possible to hit, say, the 5k mark on first month sales and continue with a sizeable percentage of that every month for two years or more - that is not the sign of a shrinking market.
In effect, what is happening is that many companies (and, again, I am talking about the larger guys here) are finding their position in the market slipping and their sales evaporating. There are excpetions - Privateer, for example, are coming on in leaps and bounds. Keep an eye on those guys. Others are finding their d20 market disappearing and are being propped up by other markets they are established in, such as card and board games.
As to Joe's orginial question, it does not matter whether there is a slump or not in the market - any company should be constantly striving to push itself forward. As the saying goes, a business either moves forwards or backwards, it never stays still. To this end, companies should;
1. Diversify - those more established companies I mentioned earlier surviving on their board and card games are a perfect example. Without the other strongs to their bows they would be laying off staff left, right and centre, and potentially leaving the market altogether. Diversification is good. And you may just find there is something more profitable than RPGs out there (surely not!).
2. Expand their markets - so very, very few RPG companies are getting into mainstream book stores in any meaningful way (that is, not a few hundred copies of a few books getting into the chain but thousands). Now, the entry barrier into the mainstream market is staggering and exceedingly difficult to overcome. Add to that the whole problem with returns and not actually selling the books you though you have, and many companies seem to not even try. The mainstream market is a very different animal than the hobby market but companies continually address the latter. Those with their heads screwed on right are a) actively producing books _for_ the mainstream market and b) making sure they avoid the returns problem.
3. Professionalism - this is a bit of a harsh term and is not quite what I mean. It also covers a multitude of sins. However, many publishers are still making the most elementary mistakes on their front covers, many give no thought to marketing and many just seem to talk to no one else in the business. There are some very simple steps that can be taken to improve relations with customers, retailers and distributors that are just being ignored. It is not rocket science and goes a long way to helping sustain sales.
4. Efficiency - many companies are shedding money when they simply have no need (and I am not talking about trimming down the odd cent per word for freelancers). I would advise anyone to take a good, long hard look at their costs and see where savings can be made - even if it means, ultimately, more work. We know what some companies are paying for various services and we are not surprised some of them are having trouble. Harsh, but true.
As to Joe's point about 3.5 causing a backlog of older books, in our experience this has just not been the case - however, many companies following the 3 month sales cycle will not notice the difference and may be tempted to blame flat back catalogue sales on this. Be careful who you listen to here.
To your final point, Joe, I would not worry. There will always be a place for good talent in the d20 market - I cannot imagine Mr Mearls will ever have a problem finding paying work and if he does, he should talk to me
As another example, we are currently in negotitations with a couple of writers that consistently get good praise for their d20 work, with a view to bringing them on as full-time staff members. So, not only will they have a constant venue for their work, they will be able to support themselves and their families with it too. Best of both worlds.Napftor: You make an interesting point about publishers needing to dig deeper into their own niches. However, I am not certain that it is correct
There are many angles to this, such as a company turning away from diversification in order to concentrate on what it knows and whether players really want full-spanning gaming worlds or prefer to create their own. We have a few products coming out soon that have been designed specifically to test this hypothesis, so I will let you know!Finally, I have never bought into the idea (and this is mentioned again and again on the vaunted 'industry' forums) that the lesser companies - those start ups, perhaps, who are putting out their first book on their credit cards - are dragging down the entire industry, forcing good products off the shelves.
Poppycock. Utter poppycock. If you are producing a book that you believe is first class but it is not getting the sales you expected (and this includes healthy back catalogue sales beyond the three month mark) then you are doing something wrong. It is that simple. I do not believe for _one_ minute that the gaming public, our paying cutsomers, are stupid. I do not believe they throw their money around with no regard to what they are buying. They really are buying the books they want and are doing so month after month. If you are a company that is experiencing dwindling sales, don't blame other companies - it is something you are doing that is wrong, be it in production, quality, design, marketing, strategy or whatever. But don't blame the little guy (if you are having trouble matching his sales, you are in serious trouble anyway) and don't blame the larger guys who are doing 80% of things right. No one runs their business but you - and the customers we sell to know exactly what they want and how they want it (it is not as if getting feedback was ever a problem in this industry!).
So, if you are worried about your favourite hobby going down the plug hole, don't be. d20 has still got plenty of room to expand, grow and develop. Niches will be filled and new ones developed, even as the game system is taken into areas no one has yet found.
The future is bright. The future is d20.
Cergorach
The Laughing One
Then you've met only a very small percentage of your customers. They might not be stupid in the sense that they have a low IQ. Rather, they are selfcentered, egotistical, know-it-alls, etc. I've spend a fair deal of time in a couple of different game stores, some conventions, and on these and similar boards. I've seen lots of people come and go, i've seen myself in the mirror ;-) We're a stupid and emotional lot when it comes to our games...
One looks at price and not at content or price to content ratio or even quality. Another looks only at price related to the amount of pages. Even someone else judges a book by it's covers, another judges books on the fact that they we're produced by a certain company or writer asif a certain writer or company can guarantee quality by just publishing. Etc. I'm just as guilty of this as the next guy...
No offense, but companies have different values and find different things important. Some are only willing to go so far as to make a profit, i'm sure that company X would sell a lot more of his products if only they actually used crack for their miniatures instead of lead ;-)
Certain companies are using flood tactics to get a larger share of the shelf in the retail stores. Although the products might not be bad, they might be of inferior quality compared to products of companies who don't use the flood tactics. The products with the greatest amount of shelf space sell the most products...
Understand this is coming from a customer's stand point.
Myself and about 14 others I know, in fact have actually increased our spending over the past year not decreased, I personally spend about 250-300 dollars a month on RPG related material. I can mainly speak for myself and the buying habits I see in my friends but we are pretty consistant and level headed people. First and foremost, we do not judge books by the price though the content has to be there if you wish to charge a higher price. Some things we can trust and buy sight unseen, WotC and anything Dragonlance seem to be the big two at the moment. Both campaign worlds appear to be very well done, rich with history and flavor and more things coming down the pipe. They offer more then bits and pieces though, they offer a total package. Sure I can add something from the some of the many D20 books I have but as a whole the worlds are complete and "living". This is a key word, I know DL nor FR are going to stop printing in a few months, I know each week at the very least can log on to their websites and find something interesting to read. I am not waiting for a month or two for their next product, I am waiting days for the chance to find something useful in the same style I have came to enjoy. Even if it is something I don't use, thats fine and I understand not everything will suit everyone all the time, thats life. I really wish more of you publishers would learn from these examples. This year has been an explosion of campaign worlds and yet most will only be at best one main book and perhaps 2 or 3 at best sourcebooks and "That's it". I used to love spell books and would buy them instantly, it has gotten to the point though it is impossible to trust it. I wonder if the word playtest enters in the equation at all anymore.
In my own personal "coming full circle", the industry has educated me on a few things, I used to look at WotC and ask, what are they thinking sometimes and now, with many examples of how bad it can really get sometimes. I find myself craving their quality and their content.
In reply for those who wish to debate, remember these are my opinions and I feel as someone who spends money, though may not be the majority opinion sometimes, I am right. I have 3 local gaming shops and all three ask me what is going to be good to have on the shelves and what won't, you would be amazed at what buying RPG books since 77 can do for experience and knowledge in this aspect.
Myself and about 14 others I know, in fact have actually increased our spending over the past year not decreased, I personally spend about 250-300 dollars a month on RPG related material. I can mainly speak for myself and the buying habits I see in my friends but we are pretty consistant and level headed people. First and foremost, we do not judge books by the price though the content has to be there if you wish to charge a higher price. Some things we can trust and buy sight unseen, WotC and anything Dragonlance seem to be the big two at the moment. Both campaign worlds appear to be very well done, rich with history and flavor and more things coming down the pipe. They offer more then bits and pieces though, they offer a total package. Sure I can add something from the some of the many D20 books I have but as a whole the worlds are complete and "living". This is a key word, I know DL nor FR are going to stop printing in a few months, I know each week at the very least can log on to their websites and find something interesting to read. I am not waiting for a month or two for their next product, I am waiting days for the chance to find something useful in the same style I have came to enjoy. Even if it is something I don't use, thats fine and I understand not everything will suit everyone all the time, thats life. I really wish more of you publishers would learn from these examples. This year has been an explosion of campaign worlds and yet most will only be at best one main book and perhaps 2 or 3 at best sourcebooks and "That's it". I used to love spell books and would buy them instantly, it has gotten to the point though it is impossible to trust it. I wonder if the word playtest enters in the equation at all anymore.
In my own personal "coming full circle", the industry has educated me on a few things, I used to look at WotC and ask, what are they thinking sometimes and now, with many examples of how bad it can really get sometimes. I find myself craving their quality and their content.
In reply for those who wish to debate, remember these are my opinions and I feel as someone who spends money, though may not be the majority opinion sometimes, I am right. I have 3 local gaming shops and all three ask me what is going to be good to have on the shelves and what won't, you would be amazed at what buying RPG books since 77 can do for experience and knowledge in this aspect.
Cergorach said:
Hmmmm...
If this is the case, then what's your place in all this? After all, you don't even produce any products; you just run an online storefront with a few meager offerings, all from WOTC. It seems to me that if you don't want the pdf and pod publishers commenting, then you should have even less place commenting on a discussion about the D20 market than the pdf publishers.
Sales are sales, regardless the format one chooses to use. The pdf industry is a mirror of the print industry. Just like the paper products, some authors and publishers sell better than others, the pdf market is suffering an even greater glut than the print market (RPGnow listed 17 new D20 products of 29 products released in a span of 16 days), and D20 products always tend to do better than non-D20 products.
And I have no idea why you consider POD products invalid. It really isn't anything more than an alternative to the high expense of traditional printing. By this point, every print publisher should at least be using POD to not only keep old products available, but to also provide pre-release comp compies for review purposes and distributor solicitations. And most small publishers should also be at least considering it as the primary production method for their ancilliary products, while relying on traditional printing for their core products.
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