Publishers Opinion Of PCGen

[Grazzt]

So the question is - did you guys do so because you felt you were getting away with it? Or did you honestly believe that you were OK, legally? Or were you under the impression that, lacking a dialogue with WotC, you had the right to do what you liked and that they had some kind of "responsibility" to talk to you and tell you how to do it?

Here's a series of questions posed by Morrus that I havent seen answered anywhere. I'd like to know the answers to those myself, actually.

 

[Mynex]

Calm down, please, Mynex. People have the right to ask questions - after all, that's why you're here, isn't it?



Well, yes. Thus the questions. If we were WotC, we wouldn't be asking them. Your job, presumably, is to answer them, not to deride people for not being "in the know".

Let's keep this friendly, eh? Thanks.

Morrus,

I am calm and yes I am here to answer these questions. And I am not pissed or angry at any time during this response (added this line after finishing).

The issues are people refuse to listen, plain and simple. They would rather bash teh product, make assumptions, refuse to do research on their own, etc, ad infinim, ad nasea (yes I meant to spell it that way).

Even your own post (just before Orcus' last one) came across as hostile. Remember, the biggest problem with message boards is you can not read someone's intentions with their questions. You have to infer from previous posts, attitudes displayed, comments made, etc to get a 'feel' for how a person is meaning their messages.

Very rarely will I be honestly pissed off or hostile in a post, and I usually will denote such things, usually I just flat out say it.

Given this topic of conversation is going on, give that ONLY PCGen was mentioned by name (by you as a matter of fact to Gaming Report)) that started this entire series of topics... Not only is PCGen being continuously attacked, and there is no other word for it, but no one seems to give a damn that everyone and their brother is doing EXACTLY what people are saying PCGen was/is doing for E-Tools, except there is no 'central control to blame' here, and of course, no one gives 2 hoots that 2 others were supposedly talked to (issued a C&D or whatever rumor of the week is going around).

So think about it a second, if you were me, and all the above you were dealing with, as well as trying to work peaceably with WotC, how would you react to what seems to be blatant double standards? Want an example? Go read Orcus' posts in this thread...

1 Message states that no way in hell is NG going to be in PCGen, then it's 'wait and see for a year', then it's 'if WotC asked me I would license to them', nevermind the fact that he's blatantly slammed us for 'not being compliant', then he turns around and would give the the nod to another piece of software that wasn't?

Double standard much here? It gets old fast... I dunno, maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's fear that someone else may set a standard 1st, maybe it's aliens on the moon beaming thoughts of dissidence to random gamers (grab your tin foil hats everyone!)

Regardless of the reasoning, ALL of these questions have been asked and answered over and over and over and over again until the horse isn't just dead, it's dusted.

Yes, people miss threads, yes people miss posts, it happens, it's the nature of message boards... but when it happens to be the same people over and over again, that's not an accident. It's deliberate, it's slander, and it's just plain out rude to continue to argue a point when you don't have the facts. People want to be right just because they feel they can be and hide behind a keyboard.

I'm in the middle of this because I CHOOSE to be, I could have very easily said "Sorry Bryan, but your on your own, good luck" and been out the door... But MY personal code of conduct prohibits that... and my code of conduct does not change whether I am in person or behind a keyboard. I HAVE researched the facts, I HAVE talked to Lawyers, I HAVE done what most simply refuse to do or believe over this issue...

And it is Bryan AND I that are dealing with Anthony, mostly me, to leave Bryan freed up to code... and I could still walk away, but I won't. Because I _KNOW_ beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are correct and right. That we ARE within legal bounds. That NO ONE EVER was lied to about what we do with the data, how we store or retrieve it.

Does OGL for Software make it hard? Yea, but it's not software that has to be OGL, it's D20 that Software has to adhere to. OGL applies to the data sets used. And those final few steps are what we're doing now, to become OGL/D20 compliant for 2 main reasons;

1) Everyone says it can't be done. Guess what, your about to see it.

2) We want to, we've been aiming for that for over a year now and NO ONE FORCED US to choose this road.

I'm simply tired of people making assumptions, then wanting to argue the facts with opinions.

 

[Morrus]

Given this topic of conversation is going on, give that ONLY PCGen was mentioned by name (by you as a matter of fact to Gaming Report)) that started this entire series of topics...

Me to Gaming Report? I've never mentioned this to anyone at Gaming Report. Why would I - my job is to rpeort news myself, not to give it to others to report.

As for PCGen being mentioned by name - that's all the info I had, and I mentioned it in a thread on these boards. Had I more info, I would have reported that too. Such is the nature of news reporting. You'll notice that your side of the issue was presented at length, very visibly in orange writing, on the news page.

 

[Nightfall]

So come on Clark. You can tell me. I just like to know which ones WotC approach you and the S&SS crew from Creature Collection 1...Please! I give more souls to Rappen Athuk!

 

[Knightcrawler]

Okay I started this thread to find out what publishers thought of PCGen, both good and bad. I've sat back for the last two days and read what everybodies had to say. I guess I've reached my limit.

I understand publishers concerns about the use of their IP. Wondering how and when it was being used and if they were loosing sales. I have used PCGen for about a year now and actually creating lst files for the past 6-8 months. And never have I, nor else that I have had contact with concerning PCGen , set out to defraud or cheat anyone out of any money that is owed them.

Now I am not saying that everyone is like this. But on many threads on this board people have been bashing PCGen for all sorts of things. Rants that border on slander. And it seems that many of these people are working from 4th and 5th hand information. So I ask you one question? Have you ever actually looked at PCGen?

You'll have to forgive my anger on this. But many of us at PCGen have been getting it from two directions recently. Everyone ranting about "complience" and "D20/OGL" and also we've been taking fire from our users for taking files off the download sites and insisting that people not send them to others.

Now if you have concerns express them and try to work with us. Don't just rant and flame. We;ve had plenty of other publishers that are perfectly willing to work with us and get their sources into PCGen.

And I also must address the double standard issue. No one has said anything about files for E-Tools being all over the net. P-to-P, newsgroups, and even specific posts about the files right here on this board. Is anyone worried about their materials being traded and distributed by the users of E-Tools.

I am sorry if this angers some of you. But it seems some of you are more concerned with slamming PCGen rather than actually expressing concerns over the use of their material.

 

[Morrus]

This thread is coming very close to being closed. In fact, just one more rant or angry rebuttal will do it.

Folks, if you have questions, ask them. PCGen folk - if the questions make you angry, don't answer them. If not, I for one am very interested in hearing what you have to say.

 

[drothgery]

[deleted to avoid getting the thread closed]

 

[Knightcrawler]

Morrus

Morrus,

I apologize for my rant, its just that when I started this thread I wanted to hear publishers opinions on PCGen even bad ones. I was looking for information and hopefully useful dialog.

The first couple of posts even though they were sharp I took them as an honest opinion. It then seemed to escalate into an attack on PCGen and the people how have worked on it. I did not see constructive criticism or any useful dialog and I finally had enough thus the rant.

With E-Tools initial release the message boards were filled with posts about what a piece of crap people thought it was. But most of these people never offered specific problems or their ideas on how to make it better. Finally cooler heads prevailed and the posts are now how to use it, help using it and actual constructive criticism. I would just like to see PCGen treated the same way.

I did not start this thread to attack any publisher. I was looking for information on peoples comcerns and ideas. I will now fade back into the background and let the melee continue without me.

Again I am sorry.

 

[Storn]

No anger. No rebuttal from this quarter.

I probably wouldn't run d20 at all if it wasn't for PCgen.

I'm not a publisher though... but I do work in the biz... so maybe my opinion counts for just slightly more than spit?!?!?

It makes character creation easier, as well as doing quickie bad guys... I had my players use it and send me the characters via e-mail prior to actually starting the game.

So, from my POV, PCgen is a gift from the internet gods that has made my GMing easier. And anything that makes my game prep easier and faster, I'm very, very happy with.

Publishers, take note of at least one fan who uses PCgen.

 

[Knightcrawler]

Publishers Concerns

I know one of the things that I have often heard as a concern with PCGen. With source x in it does that mean that there is no need to purchase that source?

In my own gaming group the rule is: a book is only added as a source if somebody owns it and its usually is if I own it. The information included in PCGen is the most basic information that would appear on the character sheet. It doesn't give a full description and doesn't tell you how it works.

I know In my own case, PCGen has introduced me to the wide world of D&D publishers other than WotC. Before I started using PCGen I used almost exclusively WotC products now for every WotC product I buy I also buy one from other publisher.

Sorry I can't meekly just fade away. I'd rather help as much as I could. That's why I got involved in PCGen in the first place.