Publishers, Piracy, and You

[Wystan]

I was correct and the seller did not know that it was not allowed. That is why he pulled the auction. He was very civil and actually was interested in the discussion.

Hmm... I didn't think that they would be considered illegal since I downloaded them for free off of several web sites including the Wizards of the Cost web site (given that was a couple years ago). I'll do some more looking into it. If you are correct, I'll pull the auction. Thanks for letting me know!

and

Well, I don't know about them being illegal to own now, but you're right about not being able to list them on ebay so I'm gonna pull the auction. I looked on Wizards web site but I didn't see anything about this in the forums. Could I impose on you to send me a link to the ones you are refering to? Once again, thank you VERY much for bringing this to my attention. I'm new to selling on ebay and I'd rather not lose my right to do so due to a stupid mistake.

 

[PlotDevice]

Logic says no profit than how is it wrong? Big deal if he does this. How does this e-bay sell hurt the big name manufactures of products? It does not.

By this kind of logic, it is OK to offer free downloads of scanned PDFs of all the books you buy because you are not making a profit.

Be careful where your logic leads. What strikes you as morally OK on a small scale does not make it ethically right (or legal). On a small scale, sure, who cares, but remember that writing and making PDFs is some people's primary income. When you offer something cut price or free to the market that the rightful publisher is selling full price, you are litereally stealing a customer from them.

Warm regards,
Evan

 

[DaveMage]

Damn you all are extremly high strung. Why would someone pirate stuff if they had no profit in it.

Logic says no profit than how is it wrong? Big deal if he does this. How does this e-bay sell hurt the big name manufactures of products? It does not.

The way you all are making him sound like the epotime of evil makes me wish more people did this. It is nothing but a few cds of programs. There is no harm in it for anyone except lawyers.

Well, it's not just about the seller's profit (or lack thereof). The person who would win this sale will not have to pay to get the products otherwise. Thus, it is potential lost revenue to the legal sellers of those products.

 

[HellHound]

I had a few minutes and I went to that ebay site. He is selling 3 books for 10 bucks. With it are a bunch of cds. Where is the piratecy? What in heavens name is the big deal? I can not believe he is making any money on this? I would imagine shipping 3 books costs almost 10 bucks in shipping.

Notice that he is charging shipping above and beyond the auction cost.

 

[Cergorach]

I'm sure all those files were obtained through illegal means. Now we can all discus the pros and cons of file sharing, but selling them for profit is imho just wrong, especially for the 'little' guys like Phil. Downloading those files and burning them onto cd did not cost $10, so that's just pure profit.

There are people earning big buck selling pirated material, money you and i need to work very hard for to earn. These guys just pop in a few cds an watch the profits roll in. It's not penis envy, but i just don't like earning my money over the backs of others, if i did i would have become a drugs baron, a pimp, or even a manager *shudders*...

Not having the dispensible income to support all your rpg needs and downloading them i can understand, supplementing your income trough the sale of those illegal items i can't understand.

Maybe some of the smaller publishers can pool their resources and start a watch program for ebay. Maybe get someone to create a search spider that searches on ebay for specific terms... Write a procedure that explains how to report such an instance to ebay. Setup a report form on the publishers site itself so that concerned fans can inform the publisher...

 

[GMSkarka]

There is no harm in it for anyone except lawyers.

I would love to be able to go off on this yutz, and point out that he's posting this in a forum frequented by the publishers who are being ripped off, but I suppose there's no point. Some people can't be taught, after all.

 

[jezter6]

He must have been real concerned with the emails, because he posted it again:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44112&item=5212096631&rd=1

 

[D_Sinclair]

For the record, that ebay seller sold those CDs 3 times:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44112&item=5211833856

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44112&item=5209282955

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44112&item=5212096631

One auction finished successfully, the second was shut down, and the third he started up as a big "fsck u" to ebay after the second was shut down. So at this point, he can't even claim he's merely selling off the single copy of PDFs he purchased.

But piracy is a tough issue for all the publishers. Quite some time back, my boss actually put in the time to try tracking online piracy of his Big Bang products. At that time, he managed to locate roughly 2.5 illegally available copies of his products for every legitimately sold copy at that time (700+ sources of free downloads on 230+ sales of Big Bang Vol. 1).

Unfortunately, there is nothing the industry can do about the problem as indivual participants. As many have said, just tracking down the lawbreakers and trying to deal with them would be a full time job, and the cost will always outweigh the gain. What is needed is some sort of industry organization that deals with the issue, sort of like a mini RIAA or MPAA that just stalks the auction sites with full time employees that find infringing products and file the necessary complaints.

 

[D_Sinclair]

Oh, here's a new question. How many publishers would still consider it piracy if the auction had only included PDF versions of the three physical books being sold?

 

[HellHound]

Damn you all are extremly high strung. Why would someone pirate stuff if they had no profit in it.

Logic says no profit than how is it wrong? Big deal if he does this. How does this e-bay sell hurt the big name manufactures of products? It does not.

The way you all are making him sound like the epotime of evil makes me wish more people did this. It is nothing but a few cds of programs. There is no harm in it for anyone except lawyers.

Assuming your argument was valid, remember that not all those products are from "big name manufacturers", but includes products from the smaller manufacturers who sell the material in e-format exclusively.

So for example, when he is selling copies of a product WE released in PDF format, he's giving us the shaft. (Which is the case, in this auction, I might add).

And he -is- making a profit.