Puppet Master

[Kisanji Arael]

Hey Soul Strings,
First off, let me say that I love the user name. Maybe some time I'll tell you why.

You raise some interesting points and ask good questions. Expect a reply before the night is over. But I have a paper to be working on right now, so yeah, SoAn beats out D&D (for once).

-Cum nefas et candore,
Chris

 

[GamerRay]

As far as the direction of this class, I notice that the two of you are now steering toward a multi-puppet user instead of a single puppet guy. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good concept, but I think for the sake of not seeing the puppeteer die when his daily/encounter arsenal has depleted, I feel it is essential that there be a main puppet.

Hey SS, I just had a quick comment for right now (with more to come later).

I've been thinking about this quite a bit. Especially if a group is anything like my gamers, and they don't take an extended rest until everyone is completely out of healing surges, the puppeteer will become quite useless.

The only way I can think to combat this would be to allow him to make his puppets immaterial, perhaps allowing him to spend a short rest gathering and recalibrating a daily puppet. I don't know, because it's a hard concept to balance. Either he runs out of steam too quick, or he can use his dailies while his comrades are trying to finish the boss with at-wills.

Also, I'm really thinking about saving the main puppet for a paragon path. Perhaps having it return to my original idea, and somehow combining all individual puppet abilities into one powerful puppet. This of course would have pros and cons to it, but that's what makes things fun.

I guess before we get too deep in to designing powers, there needs to be a logical and balanced way to handle puppets and powers. But that's a journey to take when I'm not behind in classes

 

[Soulstrings33]

I was thinking about it late last night after my post. There is one major component that has been left off that basically gives this class its flavor. In the class features, there are some natural powers that we've overlooked. First, natural ventriloquism- the puppeteer is able to use throw voice at-will. I can see this being very handy in RP and in combat. Say, in a fight, the main enemy is wailing on your party. Then as a distraction tactic you could throw your voice just behind the guy (like a battle cry, etc.) making him turn to face the sound. Not sure what save to use on it, but it would be fun to mess with the bad guys this way. Second, manipulating mudane objects (books, rocks, etc) as distractions, or improvised weapons (d4 probably). With all of that in mind, check this out:
You've been captured and placed in a holding cell (no windows, just one door leading out). Just beyond the bars of your cell, there is a single guard posted at a desk to watch you. Like salt in the wound, on the desk rests the keys to your freedom, just out of reach...or are they? Using your ethereal strings to manipulate the door, there comes a knocking. Throwing your voice, you bluff the guard into believing that a higher ranking officer, just beyond the door has summoned the him to a meeting, and that he will be relieved of his post. Not being that bright, the guard falls for your ploy, leaving the keys on the desk, and heads out the door towards the aforementioned location. Smirking to yourself, your strings find their way to the keys...

As a recap: 1) Natural Ventriloquism 2) Control mundane items (maybe call it "Set the Stage") Also, as a side note, what about scrying? I know that it has already been decided that the puppeteer must have, to a certain degree, line of sight. I was thinking of it being something like this:

Puppet Scrying
"Those eyes..they seem to be following us...creepy."
Utility. Daily
Standard Action
Effect: While concentrating through his main puppet, the puppeteer is able to see through its eyes. For 5 minutes, the puppeteer is able to see as though he were the puppet itself. (The 5 minutes don't have to be used all at once) During this time the puppeteer is unable to control any other puppet except the main one.

 

[Soulstrings33]

As far as the corpse puppet is concerned, when it comes to HP, I think that either using some of your own HP (with a possible 1/3 ratio) or spending a healing surge could give it an HP pool. Considering the fact that these things will probably be used for a few hits, or a distraction on average before getting destroyed beyond use. lol I can see it now...the enemy is frustrated because they aren't sure if it would be more beneficial to attack the party, or destroy their fallen comrades so they can't be manipulated as new foes. The puppeteer could, in this way, make an interesting boss..

 

[Soulstrings33]

By the way, Kisanji, I'm very curious how Soul Strings is significant to you. Much like you, I have a specific reason that I favor the name. Hopefully we can discuss that later on.

 

[Soulstrings33]

When thinking about the At-Will powers for this class, since it's a controller/striker, I think that it's only fair that there be 2 striking and 2 controlling. In this way, at the very start of developing your class, you decide if you're dominantly a striker, controller, or something in between (1 striker, 1 controller). This of course can be altered if the player chooses to be human and get that extra At-Will (very tempting btw)

 

[GamerRay]

I had thought about giving the master some fun abilities. However, the only things I could come up with (throwing the voice and manipulating objects) are just wizard cantrips with different fluff. It makes perfect sense for him to be able to throw his voice and manipulate objects, but it still feels like copying even though it's unique.

And I like the HP pool idea for the corpse puppet. A little of the controller goes in to the controlled... the question now is whether the corpse has any of its original abilities, or if it just does a basic attack and grants flanking.

And I also thought about letting the puppeteer do a sort of "energy surge" into the corpse. Perhaps if the corpse has been controlled since the beginning of the turn, the puppeteer has an ability that would allow him to make the corpse explode, either acting as a push-bomb, or it could deal necrotic damage (I'm thinking of the rotting zombie that hurls black goo, which I assume to be organs, at its foe).

 

[Soulstrings33]

hey Gamer Ray,
Since your original inspiration for this was Kankuro from Naruto, I thought it'd be cool to use a technique of his. Recall, if you will, the battle between Kankuro, Sakon, and Ukon. When he tricked them with distraction and captured the two with his second puppet Kuroari (Black Ant). Then, using Karasu (Crow), he impaled the imprisoned duo like a pin cushion. heh I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy Kankuro's techniques in the series, as well as in the movie..one word "Ruthless"
I think this technique can be pulled off in this game, but with a few tweaks to keep it from being overpowered. I was thinking that the initial capture could be an encounter ability (probably fits well with the control section), and then any number of combos could come off of it. The enemy would be completely immobilized until they save against the grapple (maybe), and in that time one of two things could happen. 1) the party members gang up on the helpless foe, destroying both the puppet and the enemy, or the puppeteer can choose to burn that precious action point to initiate the last half of the attack.(..or wait til your next turn to do it and hope they haven't broken free)

 

[Soulstrings33]

I like your idea about making the corpse puppets explode. Since you really liked your grenades, maybe the puppeteer can infuse certain elements (ice, fire, etc.), like the artificer, into the corpse and make it explode. Either way, I'm completely cool with exploding zombies on strings. lol

 

[Soulstrings33]

If you're going to make the corpse puppets only able to use basic attacks, then they should have a decent Hp Pool. If you allow them to have their At-Wills then the Hp should be less. That way, they'll do a few hits of reasonable damage before getting destroyed. Also, think about this. What if the amount of Hp that is put into the puppet is how much damage the explosion causes. Its an incentive to put a good deal of hp in, but then one has to consider the risk it creates if someone gets close to you. Balance
Also, this could essentially be the doorway I needed to bring ailments such as disease in.