Pure speculation-multiclassing and magic

[RSKennan]

I hope I'm not duplicating a thread again...

Something just came to me, based on some of what we’ve heard about 4e:

-There are 25 levels of spells.
-There are 30 class levels.
-Talents from d20 Modern and Saga seem to be part of the system.
-Multiclass casters will be “viable” but less powerful than straight casters. In other words, they’ll be more viable than they are in 3.5.

What if:

-Access to the next level of spells costs a talent.
-Every class gets access to talents on their own schedule. I.e., wizards get talents every level, fighters get them less frequently, focusing more on feats.
-Once you’ve taken a class, you can spend any talents you gain on talents from the pool available to any of your classes. Therefore if you’re a wizard 1, fighter 9, you could spend all your talents on magic, and actually cast something like 5th level spells.
-Every class has a caster level progression, even noncasters.
-Some abilities are hardwired into the classes, not the least of which are saves and HD. Other special abilities are only available by attaining a given level in a class. Maybe some talents have a specific class-level prerequisite as a stopgap.

This would allow for the fighter-mage archetype to be viable, as we’ve been told, as well as doing away with the need for prestige classes that do nothing but smooth over the rules glitches with multiclassing. It could also have some interesting ramifications for other class combos and allow for a level of customization never seen before in a class-based game.

I really hope I’m right.

 

[Jeremy757]

I think the reference to "a wizard casting 25th level spells" is because there won't be "spell levels" like before, but because each spell will have a minimum caster level prerequisite. I think spell levels are gone.

 

[RSKennan]

Your idea works too. I also think it's more streamlined, and thus more likely to be right.

 

[Greatwyrm]

-There are 25 levels of spells.

Be careful with that one. They said wizards can cast 25th level spells, not up to 25th level spells. If they're looking to make things easier and give more choices per level, I think it's more likely that there are as many spell levels as character levels.

 

[the Jester]

Be careful with that one. They said wizards can cast 25th level spells, not up to 25th level spells. If they're looking to make things easier and give more choices per level, I think it's more likely that there are as many spell levels as character levels.

This is what the "25th-level spells" comment seemed to imply to me, as well, but YMMV.

 

[Sammael]

I think the reference to "a wizard casting 25th level spells" is because there won't be "spell levels" like before, but because each spell will have a minimum caster level prerequisite. I think spell levels are gone.

This makes a lot of sense. All they need to do to make multiclassed casters more viable is to create a "caster level progression" for each class, similar to how BAB works now. They've tried to do it before, but it didn't really work out with the spell level/character level disparity. This time... it may just work.

 

[Baron Opal]

Yeah, once you earn or qualify for a "per encounter" spell you choose what level you cast it at. This is usually at your caster level, but I gather that you could cast at a lower level if you chose.

I guess.

 

[Li Shenron]

-Access to the next level of spells costs a talent.

I don't know... I think it would be a bit redundant since every caster would always spend the talent to get to the next spell level.

 

[Snu]

Perhaps the spell level will correspond with the character level rather than the caster level.

That sounds nuts at first ("I'll just grab one level of wizard and take a level 25 spell"), but it could work out if a) You'd get something just about as good as a level 25 fighter (or rogue, or any other class), and b) There are some prerequisites for the more powerful high level spells, so you'd need multiple levels (but not the full 25) to get a really strong spell.

 

[RSKennan]

I don't know... I think it would be a bit redundant since every caster would always spend the talent to get to the next spell level.

That would be the first thought, but I was imagining that there could be other desirable talents worth giving up the highest level spells over. What if what are currently metamagic feats were instead metamagic talents, etc.

At this point though, I'm not sure if I still think my original post could be the case. In light of what Jeremy757 and Greatwyrm have said, I think that the end result will be similar, but the execution will be more elegant.