Pursuing Avenger: How will you let your enemy moves away from you?

[Shin Okada]

Hi. I am trying to make a paragon level (11th) pursuing avenger but not quite sure how this class meant to work.

Unless the target of your oath of enmity moves away from you, you can't apply bonus damages.

Monsters with ranged/area attacks will try to move away. But melee soldiers and brutes, or monsters with close powers, tend to just stand still and continue attacking.

How will you let the enemy "try to escape" from you?

Avengers hit often, but not so hard without bonus damages. So it seems that there is not that much reason for a melee monsters to move away from an avenger.

 

[MrMyth]

Hi. I am trying to make a paragon level (11th) pursuing avenger but not quite sure how this class meant to work.

Unless the target of your oath of enmity moves away from you, you can't apply bonus damages.

Monsters with ranged/area attacks will try to move away. But melee soldiers and brutes, or monsters with close powers, tend to just stand still and continue attacking.

How will you let the enemy "try to escape" from you?

Avengers hit often, but not so hard without bonus damages. So it seems that there is not that much reason for a melee monsters to move away from an avenger.

Well, that is part of the goal - the intent of the power is to keep the monster's from getting away from you without punishing them for doing so.

If you are looking for ways to encourage them to trigger the damage bonus, though, there are some options. Avenger's have some powers that will damage enemies who stay near them for too long - you can also cherry pick such powers from other classes. You can also rely on party assistance - Defenders who might mark an enemy from a distance, or controllers that create an area that will continue to damage or debuff a foe that doesn't move... or even just allies providing flanking or establishing a presence nearby can encourage a monster to move. Or a leader chilling nearby as a tempting target, if they are willing to walk away from you.

The real answer, in the end, is not to rely on the damage bonus, even when setting up situations that make it likely to activate. If it does trigger, all the better - if not, it still means you have a foe that isn't getting away from you any time soon.

 

[Shin Okada]

Hmm. But Avenger is meant to be a striker, a damage dealer, isn't it? All the other striker classes inflict bigger damages comparing to classes with other roles. They can use their damage bonuses intensively. In my experience, they can use extra damages almost every round. If the party is well-coordinated and well-cooperated, even Rogue will make a sneak attack almost every round.

But Avenger does not inflict particularly bigger damages without censure damage bonuses. Avenger may hit the foe often thanks to dual attack rolls. But I am not sure if it is enough to make them as a capable damage dealer.

 

[Victim]

Hmm. But Avenger is meant to be a striker, a damage dealer, isn't it? All the other striker classes inflict bigger damages comparing to classes with other roles. They can use their damage bonuses intensively. In my experience, they can use extra damages almost every round. If the party is well-coordinated and well-cooperated, even Rogue will make a sneak attack almost every round.

But Avenger does not inflict particularly bigger damages without censure damage bonuses. Avenger may hit the foe often thanks to dual attack rolls. But I am not sure if it is enough to make them as a capable damage dealer.

The Avenger's bonus damage feature is their Oath - they do more damage because they hit and crit more because of the reroll.

 

[Stalker0]

The Avenger's bonus damage feature is their Oath - they do more damage because they hit and crit more because of the reroll.

Also the Avenger has a big weapon and many multiple W powers that let him add bonus damage.

The avenger is not the most "strikery" of the strikers, but he has solid powers and by far the best AC.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hmm. But Avenger is meant to be a striker, a damage dealer, isn't it?

This is where the problem is. People assume that strikers deal damage, but in reality, strikers eliminate targets.

Some strikers do it by dealing tons of damage and doing nothing else. Others do it by applying crippling penalties.

The avenger does it by isolating a foe until they wear him down.

And if he FAILS to do that, he gets to crank up the damage instead.

 

[Shin Okada]

Thank you guys. I think I got the basic concepts. So, Avenger should mainly rely on their double attack rolls. High crit weapons and Vicious property seem to be worth considering. And Power Attack feat, maybe?

 

[Mr. Teapot]

So, Avenger should mainly rely on their double attack rolls. High crit weapons and Vicious property seem to be worth considering. And Power Attack feat, maybe?

Now you're getting the idea. Big weapon + nearly always hits = very good average damage per round. Two attack rolls per attack means you have almost double the chance to crit, so High Crit and crit boosting abilities are very good for Avengers. Those two facts are where the Avenger's damage booster is; Censures are more about control than they are about damage increase. You use the Censure to keep your enemy near you (or get a bonus!) or to keep other enemies away (or get a bonus!).

Power Attack is a bit difficult to afford with the Str requirement. But the penalty to hit hurts you less so PA is more often worth it than it would be for other characters.

 

[DracoSuave]

A good way to use Persuing Avenger is to combo with a Paladin wielding a reach weapon. They stand opposite you and one square away from the monster. You oath, he divine challenges. If he goes to attack the paladin, he takes an OA from you and then your next turn he is likely to suffer your Censure. If he attacks you, he suffers the paladin's challenge. Either way, he can't use a blast to hit you both.

Good times.

Good times.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Another option if you really want the damage boost from an Avenger is the new censure in Divine Power. Unlike the other Censures, Unity allows you to guarantee you'll get the damage boost. Still, the ability to force your opponent's to make tough decisions is pretty devastating (my Censure of Retribution Avenger was able to be very reckless since between his Censure, and the powers that triggered off it, non-Oathed targets feared attacking him).

If you do want to make good use of the Censure of Pursuit, some of the Retribution based powers might be a good idea. If the enemy gets punished for ending their turn next to you, or for attacking you (when you are the only target in his melee range) he either has to move away, and suffer the Censure of Pursuit penalty, or he stays next to you, and suffers the penalty from the attack. (Although, most of those are encounter powers, but it still gives you a couple of things per encounter to 'encourage' your opponent to move.