Putting the Skill Back in Speak Language

[Sravoff]

Has any one made any changes to the speak language skill, to make it more realistic?

I can't speak spanish all that well, but I can tell when someone tries to sell me cocaine in spanish, and I can make an an excuse and get the hell out of there. I can ask how much something is, but I can't explain to the mechanic, that one of our truck's gas tanks has a hole in it, so we need the other one jury rigged to be the only one that is hooked up to the engine.

I was thinking, you could buy ranks in aphabets, and be able to speak all languages that use that script. Well, almost, you would have to make a roll, any time any one said something, with a varying DC based on how complicated it was.

Has anyone done anything like this?

-Sravoff

 

[Li Shenron]

Kingdoms of Kalamar setting does a good job at this.

Making it a full skill is not a good idea. If you would be rolling each time you're attemting at understanding or making yourself understood in a language other than your native ones, those scenes of the game would be very tedious after a couple of times.

So the Kalamar setting does a compromise, or chooses a middle ground so to speak.

I don't remember the details, but the concept chosen was to break down a language in ranks, and then assign certain abilities to the rank (such as "basic understanding but no speak/write"), but without requiring rolls. These ranks were more simple than normal skills, like from 0 to 5 (I don't remember if there were separate ranks for reading, speaking, writing...) since more granularity is not really necessary.

 

[green slime]

Has any one made any changes to the speak language skill, to make it more realistic?

I can't speak spanish all that well, but I can tell when someone tries to sell me cocaine in spanish, and I can make an an excuse and get the hell out of there. I can ask how much something is, but I can't explain to the mechanic, that one of our truck's gas tanks has a hole in it, so we need the other one jury rigged to be the only one that is hooked up to the engine.

I was thinking, you could buy ranks in aphabets, and be able to speak all languages that use that script. Well, almost, you would have to make a roll, any time any one said something, with a varying DC based on how complicated it was.

Has anyone done anything like this?

-Sravoff

Your proposal is not a very realistic system. Its not the fact that the language uses a similiar alphabet that allows you to recognise spoken words, it is the fact that certain languages are more closely related to what you already know, and therefore you will understand some of the sounds used. Persian (which today uses an arabic script) word for book: "Kitab", is soundwise similar to the Azerii (Azerbaijan being a neighbour to Iran) "Kitab" although Azerii today uses a Latin alphabet, and 20 years ago, the Cyrillic.

Turkey adopted a latin alphabet, after WWI. Previously they used an Arabic script, IIRC. Many areas in the former Soviet Union were forced to adopt the Cyrillic alphabet. These events did not make speakers of the language unable to understand one another. It "just" made reading a the written word very difficult for the elder generation.

Just because you recognise the alphabet a language uses, only enables you to make some kind of qualified guess as to the sound of a written word you see. Most likely, a native speaker will not understand you. Try Finnish, which also uses the latin alphabet.

Its kept simple in DnD, because of powerful low level spells which render knowledge of multiple languages mute.

 

[Sravoff]

Li Shenron: Ooohhh I like that idea, much more than having to roll every time. I'll think about that and see if I can't come up with something.

green slime: I realize it wasn't very realistic, it was just the first way I came up with off the top of my head, and I see your point.

 

[green slime]

Li Shenron: Ooohhh I like that idea, much more than having to roll every time. I'll think about that and see if I can't come up with something.

green slime: I realize it wasn't very realistic, it was just the first way I came up with off the top of my head, and I see your point.

IMC: The spells that decipher languages have been raised in level. Comprehend Languages is a 3rd level spell, while Tongues is 6th level. This makes the Speak Language skill more worthwhile.

But I've increased the spell level of many spells which compete against skill checks.

 

[ChimericDream]

Some quick and dirty rules.

I've never really liked the mechanic for speaking languages. After reading about the Kalamar approach, I decided to write up something for my homebrew. Thought I'd share this here.

It's pretty rough, but it was somewhat hastily put together. I'd love opinions on it.

Speak Language

Speaking / Reading Languages
Instead of simply knowing a language or not, languages will instead be broken down into four ranks: 0 through 3. The ranks are categorized as follows.

Language Rank	Description
0		The character cannot speak or read the language at all.
1		The character has a basic understanding of the language. This is limited to simple verbal communication, but the character is able to maintain a conversation and be understood by others who speak it.
2		The character has a more in depth knowledge of the language and are able to maintain intelligent conversations in the language. They are also able to read a small amount of it. They can pick out individual words or symbols, but longer writings (letters, books, etc) are still beyond them.
3		The character is fluent in the language. They are able to converse with anyone else who speaks the language, and they are able to read easily anything written in it.

Default and Bonus Languages
Default racial languages are always considered to start at Rank 3. Bonus languages chosen at character creation are considered to be at Rank 2, and all other languages are at Rank 0.

Gaining Language Ranks
Characters with the speak language skill in class may spend one skill point to gain two Ranks in a language, or one Rank each in two languages. Characters who do not have the skill in class must spend one skill point per Rank in any given language.

Gaining Languages Based on Intelligence Modifier at Later Levels
Often times, a character's Intelligence modifier will increase at later levels. Each time this happens, the character gains an additional two ranks to spend in any of his racial bonus languages. If the character's bonus languages are all at Rank 3 already, he may use these ranks in other languages.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I have done something along that lines, back in the crash...

Check out the thread here

I plan on using this in my upcoming War of the Burning Sky game, but need to make the language family table for the settting

 

[Spatzimaus]

What we use:

There's no Common tongue.
Humans get Speak Language as a permanent class skill.
Put these two together and most parties can manage to find one language to use internally, and rely on a single "front man" for the outside interactions when travelling.

Read/Write Language and Speak Language are separate skills, and any class that previously had one as a class skill now gets both. Most people will speak a language before learning to read or write it, but this isn't always true (especially in the case of ancient languages), so it's not a requirement.

Everyone can fluently speak their native language. In a medieval setting illiteracy is the default, and Read/Write Language must be bought separately; in a modern setting, literacy is the default, and is free for these languages (but not for any gained through other means). This applies to any languages gained through race or class.
The "free" languages for high INT can be used for either skill. Which means you'll actually have half as many extra languages, unless you want to stay illiterate in some of them.

A half-rank (1 cross-class point) in a skill gives you a rudimentary ability.
Complex concepts (DM’s discretion, but usually anything with DC 15 or higher on a Comprehension INT check, see below) or uncommon terms cannot be used, grammar mistakes will be common, and the speaker/writer is incapable of hiding his native accent.

A full rank (1 class skill point or 2 cross-class) buys fluency. The speaker/writer has no problems making himself understood by those fluent in the language, and non-natives can often pass as a native speaker when not under close scrutiny.

Languages are sorted into groups. See d20Modern's list.
If you're fluent in a language that shares the same group as the one being read or listened to, it's much easier to understand what people are saying (see below).

We added the "Comprehension" check.
When two people who lack a common language attempt to communicate, they must each make a Comprehension Check. This is a straight INT check for both parties; the DC depends on the difficulty of the concepts involved.
If you've got a half-rank in the other speaker's language, add a +5 bonus to the check.

For example, when used with the Speak Language skill:
DC
5 Really, really simple stuff that depends more on tone of voice than content. ("Good morning." or "HEY!!!")
10 Simple concepts with short answers that can be pantomimed (“Where is the bathroom?”)
15 Moderate questions involving recognizable proper nouns or pantomime (“Which way to the Hagia Sophia?”)
20 Questions requiring a detailed answer (“What’s a good restaurant around here?”)
25 Questions involving terms not in common use, especially technical information or slang (“How come my electric toothbrush exploded when I plugged it into the 220 volt wall outlet?”)
(These are just guidelines, of course.)

Both parties must succeed at their checks for the information to be traded. If either fails by 5 or more, he misunderstands the other’s meaning or intent and may give incorrect answers or even become hostile.
When using Read/Write language for these purposes, the writer Takes 10 (effectively, this is determining how clearly he wrote the text in the first place). While you can't pantomime something on paper, it's usually a lot easier for people to break down your sentences if it's written down, so it balances out. For published materials, assume the writer always succeeds on his end.

By using words from related languages, this process can be made a bit easier. If the character fluently speaks a language in the same group as the other’s language, add a +2 circumstance bonus to both parties (+1 if they only have a half-rank in the language). In the case of Speak Language, this applies both ways; if an English speaker who knows Spanish is trying to communicate with a French speaker who knows German, they each receive a +4 bonus to their checks; each is getting a little bit of meaning from the other's phrases.
When using Read/Write Language for this purpose, only the person not fluent with the written language can gain this bonus.

 

[Crothian]

Ars Lingua is a PDF by Tangent Games that I enjoy.

 

[Sravoff]

Wow Primitive Screwhead, that system looks awesome. I am definitly going to use that in my next Ebberon campaign, and I'll see if I can't modify it to fit in with my homebrew.

Thanks alot!