sluggo the sleazebag said:
Hi Gary....
Thanks for your prompt reply to my last message. It's nice to see that you take the time to answer your fans' questions. Anyway, I've got some more for you...
Welcome, SLuggo, and happy to supply such answers as I can.
What do you think of this so-called "epic-level" play? From what I've read of your famous characters, I imagine you've had a few opportunities to explore this particular avenue of gaming.
As presented in new D&D, I don't like epic level play in the least. The characters have no archetype, are more super-heroes from comic books that fantasy heroes.
When Mordenkainen hit 18th level he was virtually retired, went only on special quests. The last time he was played it was against a pair of ancient white dragons. Before that he was transported with a group of lower-level PCs to the Starship Warden. However...
At 14th level through the next few above that he played for a good bit of time in Francois Marcela Froideval's campaign. At those levels Mordenkainen was a low-level "flunkie" type, as the movers and shakers in that setting were of high 30th and 40th level. Frnacois had a complete campaign based on ultra-high level characters, and believe me it was filled with challenges and a very real sense of danger for PCs of under 30th level, I should think. there was a lot of roleplay, and the wrong dialog coming from a chatacter could be fatal...
First off, what do you think are the primary distinctions between low-level play and the higher-level stuff? Do you prefer one over another? Also, how can high-level campaigns be tailored to instill a sense of dread when the characters have already acheived so much and are rarely challenged at higher levels?
The OAD&D game was written to challenge PCs from 1st through about 16th level. Above 16th there were few challenges--other than some combinations of potent monsters or high-level NPCs, or else very difficult problem solving with extreme penalties for failure.
The typical adventure quest is a matter of scale, low-level monsters, problems that suit the capacity of the party. Up through around 16th evel the management of the adventure is simply a matter of scaling up the challenges the PCs must overcome. When the PCs are about 16th to 18th level, then some very special preparations must be made by the DM to present interesting material that is logical and will stretch the capacities of the high-leve; characters in their pursuit of their goals.
The G series of modules were aimed at testing PCs of mid level, and the D series were for higher level characters. The Drow city of Erelhicindlu was meant to be a scary place for 16th - 18th level PCs.
When you are running high-level games, do you introduce Oerth-shaking monsters into those sessions? For example, have you ever thrown the tarrasque at anyone? What about deities? Does divine-intervention interfere with the fantasy element or augment it?
Outside of the
Vault of the Drow, I have run very few high-level adventures. All of my players retired their PCs from general play when those characters reached the mid-teens in level. As most groups are of lower level, having a potent character with a party of lesser sort was not much fun.
I never used the tarrasque (Francois did in his games, also demi-deities). When wishing to challenge high-level PCs I use a combination of potent monsters, including demons or devils and tricks and traps. The encounter with the vampire and succubus in module D3 is a good example of that.
Divine intervention used properly certainly enhances the fantasy epic, but the deities invoked should not become the heroes of the adventure, only elements that add to the whole. If the deities are playing a major role in the adventure, then there must be those that oppose and threaten as well as assist the PC party.
In all, I do not design adventures involving a lot of deities, but that can be done. Consider the deCamp and Pratt novel,
The Incomplete Enchanter, in which the giants involved are deital.
Lastly, what advice can you give to players (and dms) who are embarking on their first high-level campaign? Could you give us a Mordenkainen (or Bigby) tidbit to illustrate that wisdom?
Thanks again,
Sluggo
As you'll note from my previous responses, I have run very few really high-level adventures, so I have no more advice to offer that what has been stated already. After surpassing 18th level, Mordenkainen and Bigby have adventured alone (with some lower level companions), as were no suitable challenges for them in cooperation.
To prepare for high-level adventures, the DMmust needs present a setting where the "masters" of the environment are of tremendous potency, demi-deities. Their opponents must be of like power, and the main servants of these overlords need to be NPCs of greater level that the PCs who will be interacting with them. The monsters presented will need to be beefed up by the DM so as to be of comparitive level, and above, with the adventuring characters.
Cheers,
Gary