Quandary! Can I do a “Pirate” campaign with 4th Ed as it is?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Having firearms target reflex is a bad idea. Remember, in 4E, the power --not the weapon -- denotes which ability modifier you use for attack and damage and which defense you target. By doing that, you effectively turn the firearm into a magic item with an at-will attack power, and can no longer use it with all the nifty ranged powers that a ranger or rogue would get.

Actually, I think it wouldn't be entirely wrong to do so. It depends on how you want firearms to be treated. I think it makes sense to see them as a variant magical item.

Especially if you consider more realistic loading times, firing them once per encounter might also be appropriate. (But if you do so, you must furthermore find a way to make them balanced even for a 20th level party with tons of money, which might make them work like alchemical weapons with a fixed attack bonus.)

 

[Pbartender]

Actually, I think it wouldn't be entirely wrong to do so. It depends on how you want firearms to be treated. I think it makes sense to see them as a variant magical item.

I don't think it would be entirely wrong either...

All I'm saying is do it one way or the other. In 4E, you can't take an ordinary weapon and say that always targets Reflex defense. It short circuits too many class powers for that to work.

Magic Item wise, you can say that it only targets Reflex defense, but you eliminate the possibility of using one of those nifty trick-shot powers that rangers and rogues have.

It's a trade off.

GOINK! I just had a bit of inspiration...


Pistol == A "magic" club that allows a character to make an dexterity-based ranged attack against Reflex defense (Eldritch Blast would be a good example) once per encounter.

Musket == A "magic" quarterstaff or spear (if it has a bayonet) that similarly allows a character to make an dexterity-based ranged attack against Reflex defense once per encounter.

Hrm...

 

[Klaus]

I don't think it would be entirely wrong either...

All I'm saying is do it one way or the other. In 4E, you can't take an ordinary weapon and say that always targets Reflex defense. It short circuits too many class powers for that to work.

Magic Item wise, you can say that it only targets Reflex defense, but you eliminate the possibility of using one of those nifty trick-shot powers that rangers and rogues have.

It's a trade off.

GOINK! I just had a bit of inspiration...


Pistol == A "magic" club that allows a character to make an dexterity-based ranged attack against Reflex defense (Eldritch Blast would be a good example) once per encounter.

Musket == A "magic" quarterstaff or spear (if it has a bayonet) that similarly allows a character to make an dexterity-based ranged attack against Reflex defense once per encounter.

Hrm...

Musket -> Greatclub (or, in the case of the Last of the Mohicans, Battleaxe), and we're set.

Add in a caveat: a character may spend SIX minor actions to regain the use of this power (meaning two rounds doing nothing but reload). That gives purpose to a minion that does nothing but reload used gunnes.

 

[Anguirus]

Anguirus that was a great example… Would you care to elaborate and tell us more?

Sure. I'll post my blog entry on the battle (elaborations in parentheses).

Awesome D&D on Talk like a Pirate Day!

So S ran another installment of our regular game today starring:

Me, Dwarf Paladin
R, Elf Wizard
D, Half-Elf Warlock
J, Dragonborn Warlord
K, Dragonborn Cleric

We did a lot of stuff, talked to people, killed some undead, etc. But the reason I'm posting is for one crazy encounter that just happened. We were trying to sail across a lake to check out some dwarven ruins and we got attacked by a bunch of human pirates (plus a halfling and a dwarf). The captain had an eyepatch and talked, well, like a pirate. The captain of our ship, Captain Dirk, announced "There are...pirates! On the horizon! They...ran up the...Jolly Roger!" (Oddly enough, S came up with this name and then wondered why we all started laughing. Once he fgured out why, he made this character constantly Shatner it up.) This gave us enough notice to for K and R to throw Water Walk on everybody. My dwarf, who had hoped to spend the voyage belowdecks with a bottle of wine, as he had never seen so much water in one place, got ready for battle like everyone else. The pirates sailed up alongside and demanded our surrender. They actually had a fairly merciful reputation, but we didn't feel like giving them all our stuff. I yelled across that they really should surrender. When they refused, I took one last swig of wine and jumped overboard, landing on the water between the two ships.

Then it was on. Dirk and his crew concentrated on keeping the ship alongside the pirates so they couldn't use their ballistae. I ran across to the other ship and started chopping a hole in the side with my greataxe. (I don't think S expected this so I don't know what rules he was using.) K jumped down alongside me. D also jumped down to the water and busied herself blasting holes in their sails (we later agreed that this was not the best strategy, but eventually we started throwing pirates own into the water for her to mop up). One pirate took up a crossbow and shot at me. Then he dumped oil at me, but fortunately missed badly (a 1, hah). A dwarf in the crow's nest took crossbow potshots at me and at other players. The captain and the halfling first mate swung over to our ship, only to be blasted right back to their own ship by a well-placed Thunderwave from the wizard. K weakened the enemies with a Beacon of Hope, then helped me chop up the ship and healed me when enemy fire got bad. I got 20ed by arrows three times, once dropping me to 0 before K could heal me back. Most of the weaker pirates (human rabble I think, with cutlasses) fell quickly, until at last the captain and the halfling made it back to our ship. The captain engaged J in a furious duel, while the halfling was blasted overboard by R, drank a Water Walk potion (I think S just pulled that out of his...well, whatever), and exchanged shots with D.

Finally, K managed to blow a hole in the side of the ship (I was only hitting and damaging sporadically so it took both of us) that let me squeeze through to the inside. After quickly looking for anything flammable, I decided instead to run to the center of the ship and start chopping down the mast. (When my plan finally became apparent here, the other players cheered while S looked a bit ill-at-ease.) The dwarf panicked and started climbing down. I had it chopped halfway down when Dirk revealed his secret weapon: the Harpoon Cannon! (I don't know WHAT was up with this. It was an ad-lib, I know that, and apparently a reference to a video game. Anyway, he decided early on that Dirk and crew had some plan brewing and once I started hewing at the mast, he made it this to help me. Totally stole my spotlight. ) They fired a massive harpoon at the mast, rolled a 20, and it snapped along the break I started and sailed clear off the ship.

The pirate who'd been shooting at me from the side of the ship surrendered on the spot. The enemy dwarf fell into the hold. The captain refused to surrender, fighting blindly on, and the halfling was dropped by D's blasting. I nailed the dwarf with my daily power, Paladin's Judgment, and then K knocked him out with his morningstar. D hurt the captain rather badly, just in time for J to finish him off by jumping down and spiking him with his sword, just like Link in Smash Bros. (We ruled this as a charge. He didn't realize that this would finish off/kill the guy, which we didn't want to do, so he unconvincingly claimed that he turned it pommel-first at the last minute.)

So we dragged the unconscious pirates aboard (we let all of them live) and used some rituals to make their ship salvageable. We agreed to split the salvage and bounties with Dirk and confiscated some nifty magic swag from he pirates. That captain's magic eyepatch went to R, giving her a +1 bonus to all attacks...but cursing her to talk like a pirate for however long she wears it. (An amusing item, but a blanket +1 to hit? S doesn't go to the CharOp boards...)

 

[Sunglar]

Lots of good ideas, and thanks for the blog post! I'm @ work and game tonight so I'll be around either later or tomorrow... Hope everyne is having a great week... (Now to ponder if I want guns to be like magical items or like regular weapons...)

Ciao!

 

[Slaved]

For Armor I would suggest that you Reduce the Armor Bonus of the 3 Tiers of Heavy Armor to match those of the Light Armors and then allow the Constitution Modifier to Modify Armor Class with the Heavy Armor.

The Players would be free to Reflavor the Armors any way they want, just keep track of which Type they are Assumed to be Using. You could even say that all Armor is Universal and it is dependent on the Character to Decide how the Armor will be Used.

This should work as a Perfect Corollary to Light Armors. So much so that I am surprised that the Designers did not go this way to begin with!!


I would not have Firearms only Target the Reflex Defense though. Armor can Deflect or Stop a Bullet!! If I may be so Bold I would suggest that all Firearms are Superior Weapons with a Proficiency Bonus above +3 and that each would have the Special Ability that the Target may Spend a Healing Surge to reduce the Damage from an Attack either to 0 or possibly by Twice the Healing Surge Value. I would not have this Affect Ongoing Damage or Other Effects from the Attack.

This would allow Firearms to be Very Deadly to Enemies Without Healing Surges while also allowing the Heroes to Charge at a Firing Squad with some Chance For Success!!

 

[Kordeth]

For Armor I would suggest that you Reduce the Armor Bonus of the 3 Tiers of Heavy Armor to match those of the Light Armors and then allow the Constitution Modifier to Modify Armor Class with the Heavy Armor.

This leads to the exact same MAD problem as "just remove heavy armor altogether." In order to match the AC of a paladin wearing plate (the expected AC of a 1st-level paladin) a paladin in your system (in which the highest heavy armor has a +3, equivalent to Hide) needs to have a 20 Con. Even for a fighter focusing on Con-heavy weapons like axes, that's a huge investment. If you make it the Str/Con pair it gets a little bit closer, but all but the most maximized characters are still going to lag a point or two behind, and heavy armor-wearing characters who don't necessarily focus on melee combat (like laser clerics and certain warlord builds) are hosed even harder.

 

[Slaved]

But then the Option is there to Increase any One of Three Attributes while Retaining the remainder of the System.

If it is still a Big Problem then a Feat could be made to Switch the Constitution-Dexterity-Intelligence Requirement to One of the Characters Secondary Attributes.