Question about an elf ranger build

[cruroar]

Hey guys,

I have a question about an elf ranger build. At level 1 can I chose the "Weapon Proficieny (Greatbow)" feat and immediately start using a Greatbow?

If so, then if I use Twin Strike, with a DEX of 20 (+5) and a Proficiency (+2) on the Greatbow, I should attack with +7. Then, since the Greatbow does 1D12 damage, and I can use Hunter's Quarry, I should be able to attack for

1D12 + 1D12 + 1D6

For a maximum of 30 points of damage per round. Is this correct?

- Cruroar

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Yep, that's pretty much right. +8 to hit, instead of +7 if you are closer to your target than any other creature (Prime Shot).

You may also want to consider Bow Expertise (from either Essentials player book), as it gives +1 per tier to attack rolls, and +1 per tier to damage if no other creature is adjacent to the target. These bonuses stack with Prime Shot, for what it's worth.

I suggest this because in 4e Accuracy is almost always more important than damage, and in this case, the extra +1 for no adjacent creatures (not that hard to achieve on a regular basis) is as good a damage boost as upping bow damage from 1d10 to 1d12. Further to this point, Weapon Focus (Bow) is equally valuable at heroic for the same reason, and improves each tier as well.

Don't get me wrong, Greatbows are good, but if it were me, it would be a second choice to either of the above feats, but particularly Bow Expertise. There is a bunch of number-crunching to back this up, but I will leave that to others who may be better at it.

 

[cruroar]

Great, thanks for the verification.

Now I need to compare this to a LVL 1 Warlock. It looks like Eldritch Blast does 1D10+5 (if constitution mod is +5) with 4 vs reflex plus 1D6 if cursed:

1D10 + 5 + 1D6

for a maximum of 21 points of damage per round. How do you bring the damage ability of a warlock up to the same competitiveness as a ranger? It seems like the warlock is a little bit weak in comparison. Or am I missing something?

- cruroar

 

[Aulirophile]

Great, thanks for the verification.

Now I need to compare this to a LVL 1 Warlock. It looks like Eldritch Blast does 1D10+5 (if constitution mod is +5) with 4 vs reflex plus 1D6 if cursed:

1D10 + 5 + 1D6

for a maximum of 21 points of damage per round. How do you bring the damage ability of a warlock up to the same competitiveness as a ranger? It seems like the warlock is a little bit weak in comparison. Or am I missing something?

- cruroar

Rangers are almost pure damage. Warlocks have a fair amount of damage and controller-ish effects/riders/etc. Basically if you look at the monster definitions Warlocks are Lurkers, Rangers are Artillery or Skirmishers. The problem is a PC doesn't make a great Lurker.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Great, thanks for the verification.

Now I need to compare this to a LVL 1 Warlock. It looks like Eldritch Blast does 1D10+5 (if constitution mod is +5) with 4 vs reflex plus 1D6 if cursed:

1D10 + 5 + 1D6

for a maximum of 21 points of damage per round. How do you bring the damage ability of a warlock up to the same competitiveness as a ranger? It seems like the warlock is a little bit weak in comparison. Or am I missing something?

- cruroar

Yes, you will have a very hard time getting halfway decent damage out of a Warlock, and there is no way it will ever come close to ranger damage.

As has been pointed out, warlocks do a moderate amount of damage, with a plethora of control effects. It is very flavourful, but it isn't all that effective most of the time, in my experience. Warlocks also suffer from mediocre accuracy and defences, with only Prime Shot to help accuracy and Shadow Walk to help defences.

You can shore up accuracy by taking Wand or Rod Expertise, and Superior Implement Proficiency with an Accurate Wand or Accurate Rod. I would go with Rods, since Expertise gives you a +1 to AC and Reflex as well.

Improvements to damage can be had in the usual way; Implement Focus (Wand) or (Rod) for +1 per tier to damage is a good start. If you can manage the 13 Dex requirement, Dual Implement Spellcaster is nice, as it allows you to add the enhancement bonus of an offhand implement to your damage.

A decent combination with this is to take a Pact Blade as your offhand implement, and apply it to a Parrying Dagger (has the Defensive property) for another +1 AC. Pact Blades are cheap, but you will need to slot a Weapon Proficiency in Parrying Dagger before you can cash in on this.

It's a little feat-intensive, but all the little bonuses add up.

Oh, and if you make a Starlock, choose Con or Cha and stick with it, ignoring the other powers. It's too difficult to maintain both attack stats and still have decent AC (which will be coming from your Int, which should be your Secondary stat).

Technically, this applies to any warlock, as the advice they give in the PHB to keep a decent score in your 'other' attack stat in case you want to take powers from other pacts is just bad advice. You could do this, but those powers you do take will rarely hit, which will result in you not using them, which kind of makes it pointless.

 

[Nullzone]

Not that it matters a ton, but warlocks also have the benefit of being naturally aligned to social skills thanks to their key ability scores; most strikers don't have a choice but to turn WIS/CHA into their dump stats and sometimes suffer in social scenarios for it.

And as warlock builds for damage go, the new Hexblade can dish it out imo. Maybe not quite 30 points a round at level 1, but they can pretty much fit into every party build and aren't terribly squishy.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Yeah, though I haven't used one yet, the Hexblade looks much better as a striker than the PHB Warlock.

 

[Droogie128]

Trying to compare anything to a ranger for pure damage is a lesson in futility. They're the kings of DPR, but that's all they really have. Can get kinda boring, imo.

Also, keep in mind, while you don't add your str or dex bonus to Twin Strike damage, you do add all other static modifiers. This is what makes it the most potent at-will in the game for pure damage.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

You can pick ranger powers that do things other than piles of damage, but most people don't. There are actually quite a few interesting options for them in the builder, but they tend to be ignored in favour of massive DPR.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, warlocks really are controller-striker hybrids.