D&D 4E Question about Daily Use Items

[Greenfield]

First, to be up front, I don't currently play 4e. I have on the past, but it's not my group's preferred system.

My question has to with items that are listed a "Daily Use". As I understand it, a given character has a limited number of times they can activate "1 per day" items.

At the same time, the item has a limit of how often they can be activated: Once per day.

Limiting both sides of this makes sense, since a PC could acquire a stack of the same item and blitz an encounter with item powers that are limited to maintain balance.

So my question has to do with items like the Restful Bedroll, or the instant campsite:

Items like these are made to give convenience level advantages to individuals or groups, as opposed to being things used in encounters.

The problem is that these are Daily Use items. The bedroll lets one person get the benefits of a full night's sleep after only two hours. You're not supposed to let people use it in shifts.

But if you use it, it uses up one of your "once a day" item uses, and at low levels you only get one.

In fact, you can't use the magic bedroll in conjunction with the "campsite in a duffel bag" item, since they're both "one a day" items.

So, do I have that right? Using the bedroll prevents you from using some powers of your weapon or ring or some such.

Or was that changed in some book I haven't read yet? Or do I just have the whole thing wrong?

 

[nogray]

Around the time that essentials came out, or possibly before, Wizards supplied errata to the whole "daily item use" thing. Now, the only limit is on the items, themselves. It is no longer the case that characters are limited to (1/2/3 by tier) + (1/milestone) uses of daily item powers.

If I were interested in continuing the older usage limits, I would insert a simple clause to the effect of, "This use doesn't count against your character's daily use limit," to the various non-combat items that you note. That makes sense in the grander exception-based-design philosophy of 4e.

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION]

Further to [MENTION=28028]nogray[/MENTION]'s suggestion about making an exception - there is an item in the PHB called the Basket of Everlasting Provisions, which has its activation described not as 1x/day, but rather "after an extended rest".

So that could give you a precedent for the rewording of some of the usages of the items you describe: eg instead of "1x/day, you may . . ." you could word it as "As part of an extended rest, you may . . .".

For what it's worth, my group still uses the original daily item limits (1 per tier + 1 per milestone) rather than the Essentials revision - it adds an element of resource management and tactical optimisation that can be quite interesting in play.

 

[Jhaelen]

Around the time that essentials came out, or possibly before, Wizards supplied errata to the whole "daily item use" thing. Now, the only limit is on the items, themselves.

Really? Where can I find this errata? I don't recall any such thing.

 

[nogray]

Errata location

Where can I find this errata?

The errata is on p109 of the 08/2012 Rules update document. (The compiled version is found here.)

It states this:

Power
Page 226: In the Daily entry of this section, delete
all material after the first sentence. This change
makes the text consistent with the new rules for
magic items.

The same information can be found on page 21 of the rules update for the Player's Handbook, which was last updated 02/2012.

 

[Greenfield]

Ah, we just applied common sense.

Oddly enough, there's actually an errata that says that, albeit on a different subject. If only common sense were common enough that everyone had it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Around the time that essentials came out, or possibly before, Wizards supplied errata to the whole "daily item use" thing. Now, the only limit is on the items, themselves. It is no longer the case that characters are limited to (1/2/3 by tier) + (1/milestone) uses of daily item powers.

If I were interested in continuing the older usage limits, I would insert a simple clause to the effect of, "This use doesn't count against your character's daily use limit," to the various non-combat items that you note. That makes sense in the grander exception-based-design philosophy of 4e.

Just to further clarify, this is part of a larger complex of additions and errata to the game which change the overall relation between PCs and items.

1) PCs lose their daily item power use limit. This is good because many powers are both necessarily daily, but yet too trivial or limited to be worth spending resources on. Items with these powers in the old system were generally useless and it greatly constrained the item design space.

2) Items gain one of 3 rarity classes, common, uncommon, and rare. Rare items are usually unique, PCs will find fewer of them and will ALMOST never find more than one. Most items listed in the books are rare. Uncommon items may show up more often but are still not something you find often. Common items are staples and can be created easily.

3) Enchant Item (and presumably other creation rituals in some cases) can only make common items. Uncommon and rare items are only placeable by the DM. The DM is of course free to allow PCs to make rare and uncommon items as much as desired, but it is no longer possible for any PC with Enchant Item to make ANY item whatsoever they have residuum for and sufficient levels.

The result is that the design space of items is extended, and a more AD&D-like relation between PCs and items is established.

 

[Ferghis]

Most items listed in the books are rare.

Correction, most items are uncommon.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Pre-Essentials item dailies were kept from getting out of hand with a hard limit. Post-Essentials it is the DM's responsibility to avoid placing too many items with dailies, which is, indeed, a more AD&D-like approach.

 

[Greenfield]

I have to admit that I never understood the rationale behind some of the "daily power" and/or encounter power decisions the designers made, and that isn't limited to items.

Somebody once explained to me that allowing more than one Fireball during an encounter would be unbalancing. Now it never seemed to unbalance any previous version to allow stuff like that, and it doesn't unbalance Pathfinder, but somehow it will just destroy 4e.

Did this ever get changed ?