Question about medieval law

[CuRoi]

Also, I should amend my post regarding there being no way, IMC, that things would move toward magical interrogation based on an unverfiable utterance by a noble man. So instead of there being no way, I'll move it to highly unlikely

Take for instance, a king has evidence of a plot to assassinate him, the commoner could not have possibly had knowledge of it, and the commoner is claiming to have overheard the noble discuss detailed plans of just such a thing. It's possible (political climate taken into account and the popularity of said noble, etc. etc.) that the King might invite said noble to the castle for a chat...

So, there are ways in which a commoner could be redeemed but he better have his facts straight. Not to mention, a king is just as likely to let the commoner suffer whatever fate at the hands of the judicial system just to buy more time in his counter plotting against the noble.

 

[smetzger]

I think it would only work if the 'commoner' was a person of power in the Roman Catholic church and brought charges of heresy or witchcraft against the noble.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

I'd like to see more feedback from the OP. There's been an assumption about bad things happening to the commoner because of his citizen's arrest. This chain of reasoning hinges on the commoner being ignorant of the law and his tactical situation.

Do we really consider that a fair assumption? If the Commoner was a PC and wasn't given ANY clue of the laws of the land he lived in, this outcome would be bad GMing.

Or is this merely a matter of the OP setting up the situation of the guilty Noble and what can happen next, rather than what happens to the commoner.

Well first of all I find all the information here fascinating. It seems that we can all (?) agree on that the commoner must go through the superior of the nobles or at least contact authorities - no citizen's arrest. I have to start spreading around XP

But anyway [MENTION=8835]Janx[/MENTION]

Let me first tell you a story:
My players stole a mithral chainshirt from a city guard captain, who is also a son of a Lawful Good baron. Then they paraded the shirt in the city centre in broad daylight. Captain of the guard arrives with a few dozen soldiers and asks politely to have his shirt back. Players absolutely refuse. Not wanting to risks his men, the guard captain duels the PC wearing his shirt and beats him to -9 hp (they were both 6th-level). Then he asks PCs to heal their companion, but they are unable. His own battlecleric heals him. Then he tells the players that they can buy his shirt, but not steal it. Players refuse. Because the city guard captain's dad was pulling favours to protect the PCs and had given the same order to his son, the city guard backs down and forgets the incident. After this the baron vows not to protect them again for hurting his son (well the captain didn't lose any hp but anyway...).

So you see that my PCs give very little regard to the law and there are throughoutly a chaotic bunch. however, I'm planning an adventure where an evil noble man approaches one of the players and offers him a rather diabolic scheme, thus starting an interesting cat-and-mouse play. So I started this thread just to see if PCs get completely out of control.

Of course I will warn the PCs, but that means nothing.

Players are ranked as "commoners" because they are out-of-town adventuring "scum" but they had some favours. None are left, though...

 

[Celebrim]

My players stole a mithral chainshirt from a city guard captain...

Well, you are already far more lenient than I would be. At the flat refusal to give the haubergeon back, we probably would have been facing TPK in my game. People in positions of authority generally don't accept being told, "No.", by their social inferiors in front of their own henchmen. I have a hard time imagining a noble of any alignment putting up with that sort of humilition. By not immediately attacking, he's giving them an out that they might not deserve after a brazen and throughly dishonorable theft, but by flatly refusing him they are leaving him very little choice in my opinion. I don't think there is an NPC in my game who, having been doubly insulted, wouldn't assume he was completely mistaken in assessing the PC's as heroes, and reclassify them as lawless low born knaves to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Even if they had survived, we'd segue into a bandit campaign as whatever goals I might have originally imagined for the PC's would likely be impossible and the main goal from there on out would have to be survival.

 

[Janx]

So you see that my PCs give very little regard to the law and there are throughoutly a chaotic bunch. however, I'm planning an adventure where an evil noble man approaches one of the players and offers him a rather diabolic scheme, thus starting an interesting cat-and-mouse play. So I started this thread just to see if PCs get completely out of control.

Of course I will warn the PCs, but that means nothing.

Players are ranked as "commoners" because they are out-of-town adventuring "scum" but they had some favours. None are left, though...

Well, like Celebrim, I might have done it a bit different. Though like you, I would have tried initially to help the players save face by giving them a chance to see this was a serious matter. (as in, hand over the shirt and say you were playing a joke, or have some serious trouble). Based on your overall outcome, your players might be jackasses.

Anyway, I take it, that from your opening statement, the evil noble will tell the commoner PCs about a plan. And IF the PCs try to arrest him and take him to the authorities, what happens next?

I think other folks have offered clear paths to arrest and whack the PCs. I'd say it was warranted as this was their third strike.

 

[CuRoi]

So you see that my PCs give very little regard to the law and there are throughoutly a chaotic bunch. however, I'm planning an adventure where an evil noble man approaches one of the players and offers him a rather diabolic scheme, thus starting an interesting cat-and-mouse play. So I started this thread just to see if PCs get completely out of control.

Of course I will warn the PCs, but that means nothing.

Players are ranked as "commoners" because they are out-of-town adventuring "scum" but they had some favours. None are left, though...

Well, as to why they don't respect the law - it sounds like it may be because they have had to suffer very little consequences! Campaign economics will vary of course, but theft of a mithral shirt should be a serious crime. Beating someone to a pulp for it could possibly be a deterrent in real life, but in DnD that's just part of the "adventure" so it's likely not going to deter PCs.

I'm all for players being brigands and thiefs, but if they are, they need to understand the wanted posters, manhunts, jail time, fines and such that usually follow from such actions. It's tricky to run a campaign that way without it seeming like it's just the DM out to get the players, and you do have to allow the players some latitude when running from the law (as they will be on a regular basis.) However, at the same time, your "law" still needs to have some teeth. Just a thought.

Your next step sounds fun - bad guys offering them a diabolical scheme. I've done this with my players if they start looking like they are hovering close to the "dark side". In most cases they straighten up after that, heh. Being approached by the BBE people and offered a job tends to be a pretty big eye opener, though I'd still love it if they accepted!