Question about Torm (FR) and our game

[AvarielAvenger]

No I´m German.
And I took reason of the murdering(killing in the line of duty of a city guard by two pcs, as witnesses nearly the wohole city guard, who used deadly force to delay lawful arrest, the following trial was fair and the decision clear from before beginning, the forms must be fulfilled, and then they were beheaded)

The Paladin did not consider the force attempting to arrest his friend a legitimate authority, with good reason. How do you know the trial was fair? Evil governments rarely give such trials.

And i meant sense evil isn´t an excuse for a paldin do goe in the MDK Mode, if he would stay pally and not be executed for murder if caught by the law/authorities.

A Paladin should only respect laws that are just and fair. If an evil government is enforcing evil laws, the Paladin should in fact not only disobey them, but actively oppose them.

Not necessarily, if the Court is fair and the society believe the punishment is fair.
Think that there also other crimes that warrant death in medieval times.
Kinslayer was in ancient times a crime, horrible beyond measure and punished accordingly.

The death penalty is sometimes neccessary, but a cruel and brutal execution is never neccessary. It is an evil act to kill someone in a prolonged and torturous way, and any Paladin from any order should be heavily opposed to such acts.

A friend, who had dishonored and endangered the whole group by breaking the truce.
Torm is a warrior, true by word and deed, but loyality had her bounds.

Indeed, and the Paladins friend should be punished for his actions. However, the Paladin owes his friend enough to see that he recieves a fair trial and a just punishment for his crime.

Such an outcome is highly unlikely given those who wish to put him on trial, and as such the Paladin is well within his code to oppose handing his friend and comrade in arms over to an evil organization.

 

[Green Knight]

Hi,

Yesterday we had an interesting session. My PC is a 2 level paladin/11th level cleric of Torm and a high ranking member of the paladin group, the order of the Golden Lion. Our party is working for the Cormyrean government in 1372 DR in Annaurach (sp) We met some Shadovar (sp) troops in the desert. On of the party members, a LG dwarven cleric from Mithril Hall, flew off the hook and shot one of their captains. The shades demanded that he be tried with THEIR military court. My PC refused since the desert is NOT their territory as you can see from the politcal map in the FRCS. He said they had no jurisdiction and were "scum of Shar"

Well, as you said, the DM said Anauroch is the territory of the Shades. Still, in the Paladins Code, the Paladin only has to respect Legitimate Authority. And an evil government is not a Legitimate Authority to a Paladin, so the Paladin's well within the bounds to tell the Shades to pike it.

My PC drew his sword. The self proclaimed party leader a Cormyrean LN fighter agreed and demanded that I back down. I refused. The fighter had this 15th level 1/2 orc barbarian knock me unconscious. Granted the dwarf wasn't role playing his alignment very well.

Well, why'd the Dwarf attack in the first place? As for the Fighter, he was right to, as he is LN. He doesn't give a crap if the Shades are good or evil. It's a tricky one, but I say you were in the right in this, even if the Fighter were also staying true to his own alignment. As I said previously, an evil government is NOT considered a legitimate authority to a Paladin. The Fighter was supporting that government, therefore he doesn't qualify as a legitimate authority in that instance, as his actions were in support of an evil government and opposed to a good individual.

Anyways, do people think that I acted within the bounds of Torm and my LG alignment?

I certainly think so. Though remember, whatever Torm says, the Paladin's Code is the most important thing. Should the 2 ever go against each other, its the Code you have to obey. Besides, Torm would never advocate blind obedience to someone who sided with an evil nation in punishing a good person.

 

[Madfox]

Torm is a deity of duty and loyalty, but he also teaches that nobody should follow orders blindly. So even if this paladin was a soldier in the Purple Dragons, he should not just follow an order simply because he is lower-ranked. In this case the paladin does not even serve in that order. He serves a religious order, so his loyalties will be primarily towards the tenants of that faith.

Under what circumstances did the dwarf decide to kill the shade? Because that should determine your paladins reaction.

What surprises me more in this story is the truce between the shades and the paladin. Especially if the shade openly proclaims to worship Shar. That is like stating in RL to a Catholic priest of worshipping the Devil and being proud of it. With the added difference that in the FR there is no question about the horrible practices Shar demands of her followers and that her followers actually hold those practices. That is something different from the original question though.

 

[qstor]

>Well, why'd the Dwarf attack in the first place?

The player wasn't playing his LG alignment very well and admitted it after the session.

Thanks for all the great comments!

Mike

 

[qstor]

>So even if this paladin was a soldier in the Purple Dragons, he >should not just follow an order simply because he is lower->ranked.

My PC is a member of the Order of the Golden Lion an order of Tormite paladins and NOT in the Purple Dragons


>Under what circumstances did the dwarf decide to kill the >shade? Because that should determine your paladins reaction.

The player wasn't playing his lawful good alignment and blindly shot a shade captain. My PC didnt object this his being punished just to the dwarf being punished unfairly by the Shades.

Mike