Question for Psionic rules experts Re: psionic monsters

[dkilgo]

I think somebody slipped on the soap and banged their head during the development of the psionic monsters.

I will agree with you on this one. They deffinitely need to take another look at the monsters in the PsiHB.

But, I still say for hte moment you either replace the feats they currently have with ones they meet the prereqs for, or just play with them as is with the metapsionic feats working. Either way the creatures are nasty.

 

[kreynolds]

or just play with them as is with the metapsionic feats working.

If I do that, you'll start running into Balors with Quicken Spell, and that'll just tick you off.

 

[kreynolds]

If you look at the top, that's what I said at the beginning.

I know. It's just that in the beginning, I didn't think it could use those feats, so I didn't really think twice about it.

 

[dkilgo]

But, see you are getting a little out of hand with that one. The Baalor was not written into the book like that. The Psionic monsters were.

And, you are right I wouldn't like that.

 

[kreynolds]

But, see you are getting a little out of hand with that one.

Hardly.

The Baalor was not written into the book like that.

Irrelevant. The very next time that a Balor qualifies for a feat, it can now take Quicken Spell. Why? Because according to the PsiH, there's no reason it can't. If it can be done in psionics, it can be done in magic. Simple as that, really.

The Psionic monsters were.

No, they weren't. The FAQ stated differently. I have no problem following the FAQ in this regard, but only if it works both ways.

And, you are right I wouldn't like that.

Yeah, I kinda figured.

 

[dkilgo]

What does it say in the FAQ? I am still trying to download it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So does that mean a Blue that gained character levels to take Quicken Power could use it for free on any of his "at will" powers? Holy crap again!

I asked Bruce Cordell about this. The Quicken Power will work on his at will powers, but there are two things you need to know:

#1: The blue's powers suck, so who cares?

#2: The PsiH has been errata'd. Most psionic creatures use their psionic abilities 3/day. PC blues always use the 3/day version - it isn't an option for them.

Creatures that are suitable as PC races should all get the 3/day nerf. Only the Caller in Darkness, mind flayer, neothelid, and Cerebrilith should continue to use powers and combat modes at will.

OK, but if the Cerebelith's powers were limited to one Quickened use each per day, that would be a lot less powerful.

The Cerebrilith can quicken each of it's psionic powers at will. Basically, it can use a psionic power and a spell-like ability each round, or it can use two psionic powers each round, or it could make a full attack and use a psionic power, etc.

Does this mean it has a lower-than-expected CR? Possibly. I've found that it dies too fast, despite the half-damage ability and PR/SR, and it also has a low save DC for Mass Domination. Then again, I like my monsters to be tough

for things like Psychic Bastion and Mind Trap we are just supposed to assume are "always on" or that the creature doesn't have to pay anything to use it?

I asked Bruce about this one as well.

They are always on, and apply once to each defense mode used each time the defense mode is used. If the Cerebrilith took Psychic Bastion again... it gets nastier.

Then again, if a PC is using psionic attack modes against a cerebrilith or other psionic creature (even a classed character), then you need to ask them a few questions:

#1: Are they any good at math?
#2: Are they deliberately wasting power points?
#3: Do they have a solid grasp of DnD tactics?

Really, the Cerebrilith example shouldn't come up.
The Caller in Darkness gets to use it's feats for free anytime it uses a free attack mode.

If a blue psion had Psychic Bastion, it would apply to it's free defense modes for free. However, the errata only gives it three defense modes per day; afterwards it has to pay for each defense mode, and it has to pay for Psychic Bastion as well.

If a feat requires power points to use, and the creature with the feat doesn't have any power points, then it can't use the feat.

Wrong. Also note that a githzerai monk can take Inertial Armor (it's not a bonus feat) and only that one psionic feat, and gain the bonus despite not having power points.

If it can be done in psionics, it can be done in magic.

Nope, the balor can't take Quicken Spell. However, it can take Quicken Spell-like Ability, and use it.

The MM1 version of the QSLA feat lets it be used at will. This is the same as Quicken Power.
The MM2 version lets it be used once per spell-like ability. If you want to nerf Quicken Power, then let it be used only once per day per free power that the creature knows.

Note that Quicken Power is still better than QSLA: a dragon would have to take Quicken Spell and Quicken Spell-like Ability to get both benefits. (Then again, Quicken Spell is useless for a creature that casts spells as a sorcerer.)

You can find confirmation for some of these answers here: http://pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm18

Look in the FAQ thread at the top.

 

[dkilgo]

Kreynolds read this.

Psionic Creatures & Taking Psionic Feats:
Q: If an innately psionic creature, such as the githyanki or githzerai, gains a class-level in a non-psionic class, such as the fighter, do they have access to psionic feats? If so, how would they power the feats, as they have no PPs without psionic class levels?

A: I think that a psionic creature that takes a non-psionic class could still choose to take psionic feats (outside those it gets from its race). However, as you note, without power points, they are difficult to use. Thus, I suggest such a creature would also want to take Inner Power a few times to get the necessary reserve. Non-psionic creatures can't use this cheat to take psionic powers.

Note: Psionic creatures from the PsiHB don't need PPs to use the feats listed in their stat block.

This is what Bruce Cordell put in the thread (Psi)SeveredHead was talking about.

Pay particular attention to the last sentence.

Thank you (Psi)SeveredHead...

 

[kreynolds]

Nope, the balor can't take Quicken Spell.

Why not? Sure, it doesn't qualify, but according to the PsiH, neither does the Cerebrilith qualify for the Quicken Power feat.

 

[kreynolds]

Pay particular attention to the last sentence.

I was hoping his reply would be more helpful, but it wasn't. All he did was nod at Skip's entry in the FAQ.

Here's the fundamental problem that I just can't wrap my head around...

1) Metapsionic feats have a power point cost.
2) Metamagic feats have a spell level cost.
3) You can use a metapsionic feat on a spell-like ability, even at will, no limit.
4) You can't use a metamagic feat on a spell-like ability.
5) You don't need power points to use a metapsionic feat on a spell-like ability, even at will, no limit.
6) You can't use a metamagic feat on a spell-like ability.

I could understand if the Cerebrilith was the exception, but its not. The above applies to all creatures across the board. That just doesn't make any sense.