Question for Psionic rules experts Re: psionic monsters

[dkilgo]

Yeah, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that it doesn't matter when they get the feat, because according to Skip and Bruce, they can use it freely no matter what, and this applies to all psionic creatures, not just the Cerebrilith.

Bruce and Skip never state that psionic creatures continue to use thier psionic powers with metapsionic feats gained after advancement in level/HD. They never stated that! They just stated that the powers listed in thier stat block can be effected by the metapsionic feats in thier stat block. They never stated anything about advancement, period.

You are reading way to much into what little they did say about the subject.

I would have to agree with the OPTION of making the creatures pay for any feats and powers gained after advancement with the power points awarded after advancement. Only because advancement is not addressed by Skip or Bruce.

Also, the psionic powers that these creatures possess are not spell-like abilities. If they were then they would be labeled as such, or it would be written in the text in some similar fashion. Psionic are different than spells and spell-like abilities in that they don't require the weave to work. (If you are using FR) They to come out with official feats for psionic-like abilities, and label these creatures powers as psionic-like abilities to make your argument stand with me.

You say that you would like to use the magic is different variation. Please use it in this instance as an exception.

If you are using the magic transparency variation then please use your method of choice.

 

[dkilgo]

Quick question.

Where can I find the staistics on this Quicken Innate Power that you two are mentioning, and any similar feats?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You can find it in the PsiH, when you find the entire stats for Weapon Specialization and Extra Turning.

Notice that I said entire. Sean K Reynolds has a nice rant about how those feats haven't been statted out.

Use Quicken Power. That feat is statted out.

 

[dkilgo]

You can find it in the PsiH, when you find the entire stats for Weapon Specialization and Extra Turning.

Notice that I said entire. Sean K Reynolds has a nice rant about how those feats haven't been statted out.

Use Quicken Power. That feat is statted out.

Either I am blind, or I just can not find it. What page is it on? Also, if my last post was not clear, I was talking about the Quicken Innate Power. I know about the Quicken Power feat. Or, is that the name for the new version that would work for something similar a spell-like ability, only psionics based?

 

[kreynolds]

Bruce and Skip never state that psionic creatures continue to use thier psionic powers with metapsionic feats gained after advancement in level/HD.

I don't know about Bruce, but after reading the FAQ entry again, Skip specifically said otherwise, that they can't use feats or powers that are not in their original descriptions if they don't have any power points. So, if it didn't start with Quicken Power, it can't use it if it takes it later.

You are reading way to much into what little they did say about the subject.

Acutally, no. I wasn't reading into it enough, and apparently, neither were you. Looks like both of us missed that.

I would have to agree with the OPTION of making the creatures pay for any feats and powers gained after advancement with the power points awarded after advancement.

You don't get power points from monster advancement. You only get power points from class level advancement, and only if those classes grant power points.

Only because advancement is not addressed by Skip or Bruce.

See first and second answer.

Also, the psionic powers that these creatures possess are not spell-like abilities.

Yes, they are.

If they were then they would be labeled as such, or it would be written in the text in some similar fashion.

They are in fact written that way. Look again.

Psionic are different than spells and spell-like abilities in that they don't require the weave to work.

A spell-like ability does not necessarily require the weave. See previous answer.

They to come out with official feats for psionic-like abilities, and label these creatures powers as psionic-like abilities to make your argument stand with me.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. The part highlighted is what's messing me up.

You say that you would like to use the magic is different variation.

No, I didn't say that.

Please use it in this instance as an exception.

Why?

If you are using the magic transparency variation then please use your method of choice.

Eh?

 

[kreynolds]

Where can I find the staistics on this Quicken Innate Power that you two are mentioning, and any similar feats?

You can't. It doesn't exhist.

 

[dkilgo]

I don't know about Bruce, but after reading the FAQ entry again, Skip specifically said otherwise, that they can't use feats or powers that are not in their original descriptions if they don't have any power points. So, if it didn't start with Quicken Power, it can't use it if it takes it later.

This states exactly what I was trying to say in my post. Perhaps you I didn't make it clera enough for you. Please reread my post.

Acutally, no. I wasn't reading into it enough, and apparently, neither were you. Looks like both of us missed that.

No, I did read into just enough to understand what they were saying. It appears that I may have mistated myself. You did read into it enough.

You don't get power points from monster advancement. You only get power points from class level advancement, and only if those classes grant power points.

I understand that, now. I guess I should have left the HD part of the post out. I retract that statement.

See first and second answer.

Well, to tell you the truth, I did miss that part of thier reply.

Yes, they are.

No they are not. They are NOT spells! They are psionics. A totally different system.

They are in fact written that way. Look again.

Lets take the Cerebrelith as an example. If you look at the description of the Cerebrelith's abilities then you will see that the Cerebrelith has three different Special Attacks. They are Psionics, SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES, Summon Tanar'ri. The Psionics are kept sepperate for probably more than one reason, but the biggest I could see is that they ARE different. So, hence, psionics and spell-like abilities are not the same thing. Because, if they were then they would have been grouped in the same category.

A spell-like ability does not necessarily require the weave. See previous answer.

Could you please expalin to me your rationale on this one. I am wondering how you think that a spell-like ability does not require the use of the weave. If you are going to quote text then lets see it. If not what is your reasoning? A spell-like ability, as stated in the DMG on page 71, states that spell-like abilities are indeed magical. Hence, the use of the weave.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. The part highlighted is what's messing me up.

They need to come out with official feats for psionic-like abilities, and label these creatures powers as psionic-like abilities to make your argument stand with me.

This is what I was trying to say.

No, I didn't say that.

Not in this post you didn't. You said that, on several occations, in my living room when you came over.

Why?

Think about it, and you will understand.

Eh?

refer to afore mentioned answer.

 

[dkilgo]

You can't. It doesn't exhist.

Okay, now I really feel like I have been left in the dark on something. Heck, happens all the time. Thanks.

 

[kreynolds]

No they are not. They are NOT spells! They are psionics. A totally different system.

I never said they were spells. I said the psionic powers that a Cerebrilith has is a spell-like ability in and of itself. If you don't believe me, read the book. If you don't like it, there's nothing I can do about that, but it doesn't change anything.

This states exactly what I was trying to say in my post.

No. You said that Bruce and Skip did not state one thing. I merely pointed out that Skip actually addresse the issue you were referring to. You missed it. Had you not, you would have mentioned that part of the FAQ entry, but you didn't.

The point is that I was paying attention to your post.

Lets take the Cerebrelith as an example.

Fine. Do you see that little Sp: next to Psionics? There you go.

So, hence, psionics and spell-like abilities are not the same thing.

See previous answer.

Because, if they were then they would have been grouped in the same category.

See previous answer.

Could you please expalin to me your rationale on this one. I am wondering how you think that a spell-like ability does not require the use of the weave.

Simple. Psionics does not use the weave if you don't use transparency, which I generally don't. The Cerebrilith's psionics is a spell-like ability, but it doesn't use the weave. This isn't a house rule. This is from the PsiH. There you go.

A spell-like ability, as stated in the DMG on page 71, states that spell-like abilities are indeed magical. Hence, the use of the weave.

See previous answer.

They need to come out with official feats for psionic-like abilities, and label these creatures powers as psionic-like abilities to make your argument stand with me.

This is what I was trying to say.

Didn't seem to help. Sorry.

Not in this post you didn't. You said that, on several occations, in my living room when you came over.

So let me get this straight...you are injecting conversations that you and I had into a public forum, and none of these people have any idea what you're talking about because they weren't even present. I'm not upset that you talking about our conversations or anything like that, but I'm just pointing out that it can cause confusion. I'm not just having a discussion with you. I'm having it with everyone in this thread, so when you claimed that I said something, I assumed you were talking about this thread. Remember, in regards to whatever conversation is held in your living room, none of these people heard it, so they don't know what you're talking about. Make sense?

Think about it, and you will understand.

Dude, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. You've lost me on this one.

refer to afore mentioned answer.

See previous answer.

 

[dkilgo]

I see that the entry for the Cerebrelith needs an up date in the errata just for a question like this. Also, I think I might stop using the FAQ as a reference since it is not official. Granted I missed a few things, but I still stand by my decision that they are different, and that they are not spell-like abilities. So the feats work reguardless of the presence of power points or not. Bruce Cordell is in agreement with that. Whether or not it makes sense to you is mute.

I will appologize for not including everybody in on our conversation we had off the boards.

Also, K stop glancing over everything, and actually read it.