D&D 5E Question for those that use the Gritty Realism rest variant from the DMG.

[Mort]

The gritty realism rest variant:
Short rest 8 hours;
Long rest 7 days.

What do you do with races that have a shortened long rest (Elves are the obvious example as they require only 4 hours, but there are also a few that have a 6 hour long rest)?

Is that benefit just ignored, or are there other compensations?

What about spells like Catnap that provide for a 10 minute short rest?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The gritty realism rest variant:
Short rest 8 hours;
Long rest 7 days.

What do you do with races that have a shortened long rest (Elves are the obvious example as they require only 4 hours, but there are also a few that have a 6 hour long rest)?

Is that benefit just ignored, or are there other compensations?

What about spells like Catnap that provide for a 10 minute short rest?

The benefits aren't ignored. They just aren't applicable for healing, power recharges, etc.

Instead, they are applicable for things like guard/watch rotations at night.

 

[TwoSix]

I just have the benefit apply to short rest time instead.

 

[James Gasik]

What about spell durations? They seem largely based on the idea of a 24-hour adventuring day, but if you only get a long rest after a week, shouldn't durations be multiplied by 7 as well?

 

[Mort]

What about spell durations? They seem largely based on the idea of a 24-hour adventuring day, but if you only get a long rest after a week, shouldn't durations be multiplied by 7 as well?

I think the whole point is to have spells be a significantly more rare and precious resource. Rather than increasing durations, casters have to be that much more careful about when and how often they cast spells.

 

[Oofta]

Elves only need 4 hours to rest overnight, which is a short rest. All spells with a duration of 30 minutes or more have their duration multiplied by 4.

 

[Charlaquin]

The gritty realism rest variant:
Short rest 8 hours;
Long rest 7 days.

What do you do with races that have a shortened long rest (Elves are the obvious example as they require only 4 hours, but there are also a few that have a 6 hour long rest)?

Is that benefit just ignored, or are there other compensations?

Well, in the PHB, the Trance feature says elves get “the same benefit humans do from 8 hours of sleep,” which if this variant rule is in play, means a short rest. Of course, the Astral Elves and 1D&D playtest elves have a different wording on Trance, which does in fact specify that you can finish a long rest in 4 hours. So, assuming that’s going to be the standard wording going forward, the variant rest rules will probably also have to account for it. To preserve the current functionality, I think the best choice would be to have Trance allow elves to finish a short rest in 4 hours instead of a long rest.

What about spells like Catnap that provide for a 10 minute short rest?

I think that should work ok as written, since it still costs a spell slot, which take a week to recover under this variant rule. Just don’t give it to Warlocks - which I think is also good advice with the standard resting rules.

 

[Mort]

Well, in the PHB, the Trance feature says elves get “the same benefit humans do from 8 hours of sleep,” which if this variant rule is in play, means a short rest. Of course, the Astral Elves and 1D&D playtest elves have a different wording on Trance, which does in fact specify that you can finish a long rest in 4 hours. So, assuming that’s going to be the standard wording going forward, the variant rest rules will probably also have to account for it. To preserve the current functionality, I think the best choice would be to have Trance allow elves to finish a short rest in 4 hours instead of a long rest.

I think that should work ok as written, since it still costs a spell slot, which take a week to recover under this variant rule. Just don’t give it to Warlocks - which I think is also good advice with the standard resting rules.

I think a lot will change in the 2024 revision. The way things look, almost ALL mechanics are going to a long rest recharge. Short rests are being relegated, more and more to just a quick healing recharge.

 

[James Gasik]

I think the whole point is to have spells be a significantly more rare and precious resource. Rather than increasing durations, casters have to be that much more careful about when and how often they cast spells.

Ah. I thought gritty realism was more for making games more realistic, so people can't full heal after sleeping for 8 hours. I've heard others postulate it as a nerf to casters, but I didn't think that was the specific intent.

 

[Mort]

Ah. I thought gritty realism was more for making games more realistic, so people can't full heal after sleeping for 8 hours. I've heard others postulate it as a nerf to casters, but I didn't think that was the specific intent.

The problem is the DMG just says change the rest times and leaves the rest 100% up to the DM. So effects will vary widely, even among those using the same gritty realism rules.

The nerf to casters intent came up in the (now quite long) Are casters really all that thread.

 

[Charlaquin]

Ah. I thought gritty realism was more for making games more realistic, so people can't full heal after sleeping for 8 hours. I've heard others postulate it as a nerf to casters, but I didn't think that was the specific intent.

I don’t think it’s really about realism (recovering from any and all injuries in a week is not significantly more realistic than doing so overnight, IMO), but rather about pacing. 6-8 encounters between long rests is a much easier benchmark to hit when long rests take a week. Makes it an adventuring week (or even month) budget, instead of an adventuring day budget.

 

[Oofta]

I don’t think it’s really about realism (recovering from any and all injuries in a week is not significantly more realistic than doing so overnight, IMO), but rather about pacing. 6-8 encounters between long rests is a much easier benchmark to hit when long rests take a week. Makes it an adventuring week (or even month) budget, instead of an adventuring day budget.

Depends on how you view injuries. I assume most are just reflecting strains and exhaustion. That, and people magically heal faster than we do without even realizing it. If you evolve in a world with magic, I can't imagine not getting at least minor benefits.

Or just chalk it up to action movie/TV injury logic. Shot and in the hospital in last week's episode? No worries! Right as rain next episode.

 

[Blue]

Ah. I thought gritty realism was more for making games more realistic, so people can't full heal after sleeping for 8 hours. I've heard others postulate it as a nerf to casters, but I didn't think that was the specific intent.

It's not a nerf to casters in the slightest. What it is, is removing a buff to casters of not having enough encounters per long rest to balance out with the at-will classes.

 

[Mort]

It's not a nerf to casters in the slightest. What it is, is removing a buff to casters of not having enough encounters per long rest to balance out with the at-will classes.

Well, it's a nerf in the sense that the "default" allows them to get all spells back in 8 hours vs. 7 days. Such a rule has big consequences for the caster's resource management.

I suppose you can say all that's happening is the "adventure" day is being presented in a much more believable format (6-8 encounters in a week vs. 24 hours) but, as it's a negative change from the default - it's still technically a nerf.

 

[Charlaquin]

Depends on how you view injuries. I assume most are just reflecting strains and exhaustion. That, and people magically heal faster than we do without even realizing it. If you evolve in a world with magic, I can't imagine not getting at least minor benefits.

Or just chalk it up to action movie/TV injury logic. Shot and in the hospital in last week's episode? No worries! Right as rain next episode.

Oh, for sure! All of which is cool. I’m just saying I think it’s more about pacing and mood/genre/etc. than “realism.”

 

[Oofta]

Oh, for sure! All of which is cool. I’m just saying I think it’s more about pacing and mood/genre/etc. than “realism.”

Last time I checked D&D wasn't too concerned about realism.

 

[Charlaquin]

Last time I checked D&D wasn't too concerned about realism.

Exactly!

 

[Laurefindel]

Oh, for sure! All of which is cool. I’m just saying I think it’s more about pacing and mood/genre/etc. than “realism.”

Indeed, my interest for gritty realism has nothing to do with grittiness nor realism.

 

[Blue]

Well, it's a nerf in the sense that the "default" allows them to get all spells back in 8 hours vs. 7 days.

8 hours or 7 days are irrelevant, it's all about how many encounters one has during that time. The problem is that the once per 24 hour recovery did not fit the expected number of encounter (by the designers) into the various common pacing that the DM did.

It absolutely is removal of a buff, not a nerf.

Such a rule has big consequences for the caster's resource management.

Yes, that is intentional. That is the primary point of the rest variants, to change the pace of resource recovery.

I suppose you can say all that's happening is the "adventure" day is being presented in a much more believable format (6-8 encounters in a week vs. 24 hours) but, as it's a negative change from the default - it's still technically a nerf.

As explained above, not a nerf, just a removal of a buff which is a very different thing.

Basically, the designers guessed very wrong about how many encounters per day the average table would have, doubling it over the previous editions. So technically "everyone" is DMing it wrong, and this is just fixing it. (Though in reality, it's designed at the wrong point, and long-rest recovery features like casting and rages per day should have a lot less uses.)

 

[Charlaquin]

RE: Nerf vs. removal of a buff. Just call it a balance adjustment and move on. We don’t disagree about the actual purpose or effects of the variant, we’re just bickering over what name to use for it.