Question on fantasy races

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

The simple answer is "because you can only ask your audience to remember so much". Elves and aliens tend to have monocultures (or an unreasonable small number of cultures) because there's only so much fictional ethnography a reader/player can take before it all blurs together and you lose any meaningful distinction.
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Put crudely, Vulcans can have either have one distinct racial culture or no distinct culture at all.

I would rather have none. The simple monoculture too often ends up as an excuse for something, often "humans are better than everyone else because they are so diverse". That's exactly the wrong sort of thing I want to be seeing when thinking about differing cultures.

I think the problem stems from authors trying too hard: they think they have to make their non-humans stand in groups, so they blow the reach and impact of the culture out of proportion. The culture is assigned top-down, rather than building it up from the shared pieces possessed by its individuals the way it works in real life. I can see why it's done the way it's done, but I'm tired of it.

Most authors/DM's should be so lucky that their elves and aliens approach the depth, complexity, and, most importantly, relevance of everyday people.

Then just make them act like everyday people.

Though, while I'm not usually one to bring up... ahem... realism, not all cultures are big, multi-, heterogenous affairs.

Which is okay: the key is the separate race and culture in the mind of the reader. So even if a culture ends up having only one race listed as common you've at least given cause for the reader to think it's not inherent to the race.

 

[jsears2002]

As for your modified Hound Archons, may I suggest dyed fur instead of tattoos?

That is kinda what I meant. It would be specific dyes made for the hounds. The hounds' fur will change depending on where their packs are based - husky-like if in the frozen wastes, red from somewhere else, maybe an earth-tone for plains.

I believe that each race will have culture that has survived and stuck with each group. However, there are also traits that will be shared as parts of each race have come together to live in harmony - larger cities and kingdoms. To assimilate, each race - including humans - will have taken something to heart from others and given part of themselves up to live together, as it is normally.

Talking with a friend, he mentioned it might be fun to make a sect of dwarves to be sea-faring. That could create an interesting result.

 

[Dausuul]

Hi all-

This is a dual faceted question. The first is about the existance of varying races in fantasy settings. Do you feel that various races are needed to make a complete fantasy setting? Or are humans with various culture enough to make a fun fantasy realm?

Multiple races are not needed for a complete and fun fantasy setting. A great many fantasy settings are either human-only (Conan*) or human-centric (Harry Potter). Even Tolkien, who pioneered most of the "standard fantasy races," seldom wrote anything from the elf or dwarf viewpoint; his POV characters were hobbits, who in that setting were stand-ins for humans.

For me, there's a scale of "outlandishness" in terms of races, from 1 to 5:

1: Humans only. Humans dominate the world and all PCs are 100% human. If there are multiple PC races at all, their racial traits are of cultural rather than genetic origin.
2: Humans and human derivatives only. Humans dominate the world, and all PCs are of human root stock, but not all PCs are "regular humans." Some PCs may have a strain of nonhuman blood that gives them unusual gifts. Others might have been altered by magic. Most can probably pass for human without much trouble; those that can't will be severely hampered in social situations.
3: Human-centric. Humans dominate the world, but not all PCs are human. The number of non-human PC races is strictly limited and their numbers are small; non-humans are probably viewed with suspicion and distrust if they reveal their nature.
4: Cosmopolitan. Humans are widespread but not dominant. A small number of other races (probably around 2 to 4 of them) exist openly alongside humans, and PCs can belong to any of those races. Passing for human is not required, but all races share a common outlook to some degree.
5: Kitchen sink. The whole kit and caboodle. Everything from revenants to goliaths to warforged.

My current 4E campaign is somewhere between #4 and #5--a choice I made because we were just starting out 4E and I wanted to let people try out the new races. It's a decision I'm really regretting now, because I just have no use for all these nonhuman races in my world-building, so for some reason, the PCs--a revenant, an eladrin, a human, and a halfling--never seem to run into anything but humans. My next campaign will probably be #2, maybe even #1.

[SIZE=-2]*Note that when I say "human-only," I'm referring to the protagonists and their companions, if any. Obviously Conan had plenty of non-human opposition.[/SIZE]

 

[jsears2002]

I've never thought of it in quite that light. That is actually quite a useful chart to compare to, even if it is completely self-made. Could you better define #2?

Also, would your rating change if the elves and dwarves were changed into human naturalists and short humans?

 

[Somebloke]

Could you better define #2?

There are a several excellent examples of this underused, in my opinion, trope:

- The best example would be 'goblinization' in Shadowrun. An upsurge in magic levels triggers genetic switches that mutates a portion of humanity into various fantasy races. Since the change is only a generation or two old, there are plenty of orcs, elfs etc. who remember what it was like to be human.

- The Kushiel series from Jaqueline Carey is set in a nation who's peoples have....benefitted...from having amorous fallen angels wandering their country for a few generations several hundred years back as well as a celtic race of witches who had a personal relationship with the wild. It also ran with the the idea of Chosen, people born once a generation to be granted attributes close to that of their god's ideals. The sorcerous bloodlines of the Pathfinder campaign could also be used as a springboard for a similar concept.

- The Kalashatar from Ebberon and the Freakangels from the webcomic of the same name are both lawful good races of 'pod people' who were decended from humans altered or fertilised by aliens/extradimensional beings.

- Midnight's Children details the lives of hundreds of individuals, based on the gods and legends of Hindu mythology, who were all born on the hour of midnight on the first day of India's independence. I am considering using this as the basis for a campaign, replacing the death of the gods as a catalyst.

- Planetouched and gensai are...well, I suspect you know what they are. Now imagine that these were the sole basis for nonhumans in the fantasy setting...

- X-men. Enough said.

 

[Glade Riven]

This is an interesting delima, and there are four ways I am handling it in my campaign:

1. The inclusion of elements from old-fashion myths, legends, and folklore that are commonly absent in modern fantasy
2. The combinding of unrelated "real world" cultures or an atypical application of a culture (Elves, for instance, are a combination of celtic and japanese; dwarves are old-school Russian, viking, or something in-between)
3. Multiple ethnicities per race
4. Historical referance

The cultures work via regional dominance, in which x race is the majority. Some locals have a blending of cultures, such as where human settlers moved onto the traditional homeland of an Elfin Lord. Many times, minority cultures have holdouts within regions of a major culture, but said holdouts are tainted by the major culture.

 

[jsears2002]

Hmm, that is an interesting idea. To have elves or dwarves be the evolved or unlocked form of humanity. That does tend to make culture simpler if the change is only a generation old, but I think that might also eliminate some of the magic that comes from having a good history for players to get wrapped up in.

And I might have a hard time with my hound archon-modeled race with this one, unless I magically breed a dog and human....hmm. The explanation was great though.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Hi all-

This is a dual faceted question. The first is about the existance of varying races in fantasy settings. Do you feel that various races are needed to make a complete fantasy setting? Or are humans with various culture enough to make a fun fantasy realm?

Games like Talislanta and Journe would argue heavily that fantasy races, espeically those steering far away from elves and dwarves would be preferable. The classics remain classics though, ranging form norse myth to the grandfather of fantasy tales so it's best not to dismiss them out of hand.

Sword and Sorcery fiction, such as Fritz Lieber's Fafrd and Gray Mouser, or many of Michael Moorcock's tales of Hawkmoon, would indicate that it's perfectly standard to avoid fantasy races save for as the occassional glimpse/encounter. Indeed, pulp adventure writers like Harold Lamb, didn't use real 'magic' or fantasy but managed to use the massive plethora of real world cultures and history to paint adventure by the bucketfulls.

The second is this. While I was thinking about creating my own campaign world, I started thinking about elves and dwarves - and I see them as the cookie-cutter fantasy races. Used almost ad-nauseum. Does anyone else agree? I am juggling with the idea of creating new races.

Here is the last section. If I do decide on making new fantasy races for my campaign world, does anyone have any tips, resources, or suggestions about creating new races that aren't too outlandish and could believably exist in a fantasy realm?

Thanks in advance,
Jsears2002

Yes and no. Classics are classics for a reason.

For different races, read. For example, Mistborn has several distinctive fantasy races. There are the skaa, humans who have been changed to breed quicker and are slightly shorter than the ruling class. There are the koloss, a race of blue skinned humans that grow as they age. At first their skin is far too lose, but since they don't stop growing, eventually gets too tight. There are the Tertis, the history keepers and lore masters of the setting. There are the shape changers who are muscle that build their bodies around bones. They are master impersonators and spies who don't necessarily die when stabbed through the heart, but are merely... incovinced.

Other fantasy stories have their own races and bits. Find what roles you want those races to have and build accordingly.

But while pondering the fate of elves and dwarves, don't forget the flipside. If going for the pulp feeling, ditch the orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc... No point in crying old and used up on one hand and bringing out creatures just as old and used on the other.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

<snip>
2: Humans and human derivatives only. Humans dominate the world, and all PCs are of human root stock, but not all PCs are "regular humans." Some PCs may have a strain of nonhuman blood that gives them unusual gifts. Others might have been altered by magic. Most can probably pass for human without much trouble; those that can't will be severely hampered in social situations.<snip>

<snip>
- The Kushiel series from Jaqueline Carey is set in a nation who's peoples have....benefitted...from having amorous fallen angels wandering their country for a few generations several hundred years back as well as a celtic race of witches who had a personal relationship with the wild. It also ran with the the idea of Chosen, people born once a generation to be granted attributes close to that of their god's ideals. The sorcerous bloodlines of the Pathfinder campaign could also be used as a springboard for a similar concept.

- The Kalashatar from Ebberon and the Freakangels from the webcomic of the same name are both lawful good races of 'pod people' who were decended from humans altered or fertilised by aliens/extradimensional beings.
<snip>
- Planetouched and gensai are...well, I suspect you know what they are. Now imagine that these were the sole basis for nonhumans in the fantasy setting...
<snip>

In my homebrew, I lump all the beings who have ancestry from beyond the Prime Material- regardless of their base race (human, elf, orc, etc.)- into the "race" called Nephilim.

Essentially, I'm expanding the definition they gave as: "the hybrid offspring of fallen angels and human women."

This is different than Demigods, who are the offspring of more powerful beings- lesser gods on up or beings of equivalent power.

 

[jsears2002]

I think my reading selection is partly why I posted this question. I have read many sci-fi and fantasy books over the years, many with the traditional races and some with different ones. I am fond of the classics, but began to think with this project if players (especially mine) would like to see a change in the selection - whether it be the races that change, or just how they fit into the world that gets explored.

I've read Moorcock's Corum books, Brian Lumley's Necroscope saga, Goodkind's Sword of Truth, Dragonlance books, Forgotten Realms, and many others. Each had great worlds/universes - some of which had two dozen or more races like Forgotten Realms, and others like with Goodkind that had just humans.

Right now, I'm going to try writing out the roles I want to have, and see if I can fill them with different groups of humans, or if other races would fit better.

Thanks!