Question regarding Grab and Constrict

[frankthedm]

Grabbing monster is an easy target (usually)

Not that easy of a target anymore. Being down 4 dex points is not that bad.

Getting in melee combat with a grabby monster should never be the safest option.

On that notion, was the assumption critters with Grab did or did not get to use Grab on AoO's.

It sounds like they should not, but pathfinders wording of free actions make it just vague enough where it could not hurt to ask. I've also seen this ignored by DMs in 3.5, feeling that the special maneuvers should not be stopped short by what could have been semantics issues.

Question has been around since 3.5.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/96294-improved-grab-aoo.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/179874-improved-grab-aoo.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/269768-improved-grab-free-action.html

 

[ruemere]

That's why I wrote "usually".

Anyway, regarding your question:
- starting grapple via grab is a free action (i.e. usable at any time, provided certain conditions for this particular action are met)
- grab specifies that its condition is to hit with an attack
- attack of opportunity is an attack

In other words, that would be "yes".

Ahem... (switching to Darth Vader voice) Beware of the power of the dark mantle!

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[frankthedm]

a free action (i.e. usable at any time, provided certain conditions for this particular action are met)

And are you sure about that? The ability to take a free action when not one's turn seems rare enough where it still gets called out. Notably Talking & Readying

Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Intentional. if we just let grab give a +2 bonus, it'd be easier to just give Improved Grapple as a bonus feat.

Grab gives a +4 because it's more powerful than a mere feat. And because monsters who grab should be pretty good at it; getting in melee combat with a grabby monster should never be the safest option.

Even without any bonus, it'd be more powerful than a mere feat. It's a free action grapple. No feat in PF offers that. And it's just a drastic change from 3.5. In 3.5, Improved Grab didn't even give a grapple bonus, while as Improved Grapple gave a +4. Now Grab gives +4 and Imp. Grapple only +2. Also, in 3.5 Improved Grab pulled the creature to your square, instead of moving into his. One of my PCs actually used that obscure facet of Grab while polymorphed as a Cave Troll (DM allowed it and actually encouraged me ot use that form, don't throw rocks) to dismount the BBEG from his 5-headed aspect of Tiamat mount. I guess Grab no longer has that advantage in Pathfinder.

 

[ruemere]

And are you sure about that? The ability to take a free action when not one's turn seems rare enough where it still gets called out. Notably Talking & Readying[...]

It's just my interpretation (also, PFRPG is not a legal text, so sometimes definitions are too fuzzy to easily adjudicate), however please bear with me:
From PFRPG: Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

The key part: You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
In other words, unless something is declared as "you do X as a free action", a free action should occur within confines of another, more definite, action.
An attack is an action. Therefore, a free action may occur during an attack. Therefore, since grab is a free action occurring during attack, it can take place.
Timing of the attack is immaterial then, since the the only clear rule-based requirement, is that the attack action in this case was the one which allows for grab.

The key part, part II: There are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
So, basically, if the grab is really an standard extension of this particular attack, it should be usable, unless GM decides it is not possible.

Concluding, this is not a legal text, and the matter is clearly (and ultimately) in GM's hands. However, there is a favorable interpretation, and unless you feel it should not be valid (as a GM), you should use it. Myself, I have had plenty of real-life experiences of grabbing something out of sheer reflexive action (to stop a glass from shattering on the floor), so I am going to go with grab allowed within AoO.

YMMV.

Regards,
Ruemere