Shemeska
Adventurer
Shade said:Don't forget Wartle.
Yes, Wartle. Poor forgotten Wartle. So easy to overlook.
I mentioned him in the Slaad thread a page or two back on the main forum. Just not in the same league as Ygorl etc.
Questions about alignment-themed outsiders
- Thread starter victorysaber
- Start date
Yes, Wartle. Poor forgotten Wartle. So easy to overlook.
I mentioned him in the Slaad thread a page or two back on the main forum. Just not in the same league as Ygorl etc.
Particle_Man
Explorer
Odd how the modrons are the race with the most powerful being (Primus) and they *still* haven't been officially updated to 3.5, and only given 3.0 stats in a web enhancement.
Hmmm...I wonder what a universe with only slaadi, modrons and elementals as non-prime beings would look like.
Hmmm...I wonder what a universe with only slaadi, modrons and elementals as non-prime beings would look like.
Particle_Man
Explorer
What else is on Primus's level? There is no "inevitable lord" of that caliber that I know of, and the formian Hive Queen just doesn't cut it. The LN guys are pretty thin on the ground otherwise, aren't they? Maybe Azer?
Oh, wait, sorry. I didn't mean to say that Primus was the most powerful of *all* planar lords - just that he was the most powerful of the LN planar lords.
I did find it interesting that the baatezu progenitors started as LN though. Maybe one of them could have been the old LN lord, invented the modrons, and then left them and went to another plane, and got corrupted to LE so never returned?
Oh, wait, sorry. I didn't mean to say that Primus was the most powerful of *all* planar lords - just that he was the most powerful of the LN planar lords.
I did find it interesting that the baatezu progenitors started as LN though. Maybe one of them could have been the old LN lord, invented the modrons, and then left them and went to another plane, and got corrupted to LE so never returned?
Shemeska
Adventurer
Particle_Man said:
Ahhh, ok gotcha. I got confused on what you were saying.
Primus doesn't really have any true rivals on Mechanus.But to reply to what you said before that:
Aye, the Formian's of Mechanus are an abomination compared to the portion of their race that still resides in Arcadia. I wouldn't be surprised if their fall hasn't stopped yet. Acheron would seem to be waiting for them with open arms. The Formian Hive Queen of the former Naumensus/Menausus layer of Arcadia is powerful, but not Primus level, and while the One and the Prime is connected to Mechanus on a primal level, she's a recent immigrant.
There are the Moignos, beings of living mathematics, who collectively inflicted hideous casualties on the modrons in a brief war, but they don't have any (known) leaders.
Then there are the Parai (called Visilights in 3.5). I've always been partial to the idea of their being a higher tier of Parai that represents a higher level of the "perfection" that the Parai as a race strive for. They're less known in 3e, but they're probably the largest long-term threat to the Modrons (modrons and parai will kill one another on sight). But any notion of a Parai Queen or queens is purely speculation on my part. And yes, I did attempt an ecology pitch on these guys, but the hook didn't get a bite.
victorysaber
First Post
Particle_Man said:
Just curious... didn't Orcus defeat Primus once?
Shemeska
Adventurer
victorysaber said:
Yes. During his period of existance as Tenebrous, he used The Last Word to kill Primus and subsequently was able to temporarily hijack control of the modron heirarchy. He abandoned the position and fled Mechanus however when he realized that the influence went both ways, and the modron energy pool in Regulus was starting to corrupt him with Law, which terrified and disgusted him. As soon as he left, a new Primus (the current one) was formed to replace the previous one.
During the same period Orcus/Tenebrous also killed Maanzicorian the illithid deity of secrets, Camaxtli the Aztec deity of fate, Bwimb the archomental of ooze, and the relatively unknown goddess Tomeri. Eventually the Last Word ended up consuming him however, killing him for a second time.
BOZ said:really? i didn't realize they came in that order! i always figured bringing Graz 'n' Paz back was a Planescape idea! learn something new every day.
If you look at the credits for the Planes of Chaos Monstrous Supplement, you'll see the following:
"Thanks to L. Richard Baker III (the Abyss), Colin McComb (the Abyss), Gary Gygax (goristroi), Richard Hunt (asrai), Stephen Innis (lillend), J. Paul LaFountain (Outer Planes MC), Carl Sargent (varrangoin and Abyssal lords)."
Carl Sargent's varrangoin, Pazrael, and Graz'zt came from Iuz the Evil. Richard Hunt's asrai came from Dragon #191. Stephen Innis' lillend came from Dragon #94. Gary Gygax's goristro came from Dragon #91.
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