Questions about sneak attacks

[Jhaelen]

While it is true that the ability's description doesn't actually say the shadow must provide concealment, it is strongly implied.

How so?
I don't see anything implying that.

 

[irdeggman]

HiPS depends not on concealment, but there being shadows. There are still shadows even if True Seeing is active.

This is where it comes down to interpretation.

If the person viewing can see through the darkness then there are no shadows to him. If the ability depends on whetehr or not there are shadows for the PC then there are. It is going to come down to a DM call on this one though.

What conditions apply for the Hide in Plain Sight ability to function are dependent on the source.

The ranger's (and scout's) version applies in natural terrain (does not require any shadows whatsoever and it specifically states "even when being observed")

The assasin's version allows him to Hide even if being observed as long as he is within 10 ft of some sort of shadows.

 

[Dandu]

This is where it comes down to interpretation.

If the person viewing can see through the darkness then there are no shadows to him. If the ability depends on whetehr or not there are shadows for the PC then there are. It is going to come down to a DM call on this one though.

HiPS works on people with Darkvision.

 

[Vegepygmy]

HiPS works on people with Darkvision.

Cite?

 

[pawsplay]

While it is true that the ability's description doesn't actually say the shadow must provide concealment, it is strongly implied.

In what way? In fact, since shadowdancers can hide in shadows and rangers in natural terrain, I think the opposite is implied; they really meant shadows.

 

[FEADIN]

HiPS works on people with Darkvision.

I agrea, even more so if it doesn't depends on shadows.

Darkvision

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

Nowhere it is written that HPS can be defeated by Darkvision.No exception.

 

[billd91]

If someone with darkvision can see in complete darkness, what can a shadow obscure? Nothing. The hiding character needs something else to obstruct vision and provide concealment.

 

[meltinbradley]

When I talked to the DM about it, it made sense. Darkness is a magical effect that was casted and used to grant concealment to the assassin, but because the Titan had true seeing there were no shadows therefore he cant use it.
Then I talked to the player and he said that true seeing DOES NOT allow one to see through concealment. Though the titan can see through the darkness it does not negate the fact that the assassin can use that darkness to grant himself concealment. HIPS allows one to hide while being observed, and though as strange as it sounds as I try to imagine that in a real life situation it does make sense according to the rules.
As for sneak attacks, I think there are a lot of problems in D&D. I doubt those involved in its creation were killers, martial arts experts, or army veterans who really know about battles, conflicts, where to harm someone and do serious damage. They just came up with a great and fun idea and I even think they mention in the book that you can change the rules as you see fit.
I dont totally agree with the sneak attack rule in the book, but was curious as to what others thought and to gather ideas to make my own house rules regarding situations that come up in the game.
When the game is being run by a rules lawyer, and constant actions are being checked by using the book makes the game less fun and lose its flow. Recently we have been spending half the time gaming and the other half looking at the book or arguing about situations.

 

[Dandu]

If someone with darkvision can see in complete darkness, what can a shadow obscure? Nothing. The hiding character needs something else to obstruct vision and provide concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

1. Does the character have the Supernatural Ability Hide in Plain Sight?
2. Is the condition "shadows exist within 10 feet of the shadow dancer" fulfilled?

• If not, then the character cannot use Hide in Plain Sight.
• If so, then the character can use Hide in Plain Sight.

Please note that the Shadow Dancer is not hiding in the shadow. She is never stated to be hiding in the shadow. In fact, the ability to hide in shadows even if they are 10 feet away implies that she is not hiding in the shadows. She just needs shadows to be present in her immediate vicinity. Which they are.

When I talked to the DM about it, it made sense. Darkness is a magical effect that was casted and used to grant concealment to the assassin, but because the Titan had true seeing there were no shadows therefore he cant use it.

Objection!

 

[billd91]

1. Does the character have the Supernatural Ability Hide in Plain Sight?
2. Is the condition "shadows exist within 10 feet of the shadow dancer" fulfilled?

• If not, then the character cannot use Hide in Plain Sight.
• If so, then the character can use Hide in Plain Sight.

Please note that the Shadow Dancer is not hiding in the shadow. She is never stated to be hiding in the shadow. In fact, the ability to hide in shadows even if they are 10 feet away implies that she is not hiding in the shadows. She just needs shadows to be present in her immediate vicinity. Which they are.

Except that from the creature with darkvision's point of view, there is no shadow. It's no different, really, from the different perspectives you may have if a character tries to hide behind a bush. If someone has a direct line of sight that does not include the bush, no hiding will work - from their perspective.
The shadow dancer's hide in plain sight does not negate the need for a concealing darkness. It just moves it to being within a certain distance.