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Questions - Attacking while 'Blind'

TheYeti1775

Adventurer
(i.e. Attacker blindfolds self for fighting creature with gaze attack)

Questions
1. The Defender gets total Concealment 50/50 right?
2. The Attacker loses Dex Bonus and an additional -2 to AC.
2.a. Are attacks on the Attacker considered Sneak Attacks for the Rogues?
3. The Attacker gets -2 to their hit rolls right?

4. What else am I missing?

In the above the Attacker in question does have Blindfighting, but I need to know the penalties without for some other party members as well.
 

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Infiniti2000

First Post
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
2a. Yes.
3. No. There is no penalty for the attack roll.
4. The attacker cannot take attacks of opportunity against concealed opponents (which would be everyone). He also moves at half speed and thus cannot take a 5ft-step (big penalty AFAIC). There are various skill/ability check penalties.

The above answers change for a person with Blind-Fight.
 

TheYeti1775

Adventurer
Infiniti2000 said:
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
2a. Yes.
3. No. There is no penalty for the attack roll.
4. The attacker cannot take attacks of opportunity against concealed opponents (which would be everyone). He also moves at half speed and thus cannot take a 5ft-step (big penalty AFAIC). There are various skill/ability check penalties.

The above answers change for a person with Blind-Fight.

Thank you,
So what are the changes with Blind-Fight?
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Changes with respect to Blind-Fight.

1. Yes, but rolled twice. You could treat this as 25% miss chance.
2. Yes. No.
2a. Yes. No.
3. No. There is no penalty for the attack roll.
4. The attacker cannot take attacks of opportunity against concealed opponents (which would be everyone). He also moves at half three quarters speed and thus cannot take a 5ft-step (big penalty AFAIC). There are various skill/ability check penalties.
 

RigaMortus2

First Post
Wow, I never knew that you couldn't make a 5' step while blind. How did I miss that? Does this also happen if you are in total darkness?
 

shilsen

First Post
RigaMortus2 said:
Wow, I never knew that you couldn't make a 5' step while blind. How did I miss that? Does this also happen if you are in total darkness?
Yes. Any time you are restricted to half speed, you cannot take a 5 ft step. It's covered in the PHB glossary under "half speed".

I'd say that's in the list of rules a lot of people don't know about.
 

Peter Gibbons

First Post
RigaMortus2 said:
Wow, I never knew that you couldn't make a 5' step while blind. How did I miss that? Does this also happen if you are in total darkness?
Yes.
Player's Handbook (page 144) said:
You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain (see page 148) or darkness.
 
Last edited:

The Souljourner

First Post
Wow, chalk me up as one who never knew about the 5' step in darkness. Definitely makes sense that you can't move tactically like that... I just didn't know there was a rule about it.

-The Souljourner
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Difficult terrain is an area you should have fun with. Since you can't take a 5ft-step in such areas, it really changes the way combat runs (for the better IMO, because it makes tactical positioning much more interesting). If you have an uneven flagstone floor, for instance, the characters are moving in hampered terrain and cannot take 5ft-steps at all. Note that to move more quickly than normal, they have to do so as a Move Action. Check out the other types of floors, particularly obstacles. It would be reasonable to treat a crowded tavern (crowded by tables and chairs or even people) as "dense rubble".
 

RigaMortus2

First Post
You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain (see page 148) or darkness.

Hmmm, but blindness is not darkness, right?

What about fog? What about moving through water? Against heavy winds? Can you take a 5 foot step in those situations?
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
RigaMortus2 said:
Hmmm, but blindness is not darkness, right?
Two ways to answer that. The first is shilsen's response, which makes the comparison moot (my emphasis):
D&D Glossary said:
half speed
When restricted to moving at half speed, count each square moved into as 2 squares, and every square of diagonal movement as 3 squares. If you are restricted to half speed, you can't run or charge, nor can you take a 5-foot step.
The second way, is blindness lightness? :) No, seriously, do you not consider "unable to see" as equivalent to "darkness hampering your movement?"

RigaMortus2 said:
What about fog? What about moving through water? Against heavy winds? Can you take a 5 foot step in those situations?
No to all of them if your movement is hampered. The correlation comes about in this:
SRD said:
Hampered Movement
Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement.
This shows that hampered movement isn't just about obstacles and terrain, it's about poor visibility such as darkness, fog, etc. Water and wind would fall under 'terrain' IMO, but I could see an argument there if you were reduced to something better than half speed.
 


boolean

Explorer
Stalker0 said:
Yeah that's a big question, if reduced to 3/4 speed counts for the 5 foot step? That could make blindfighting even nicer.

Player's Handbook (page 144) said:
You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain (see page 148) or darkness.

Say your normal speed is 30 ft.

Without Blind Fight, it's reduced to 15.

With Blind Fight, it's reduced to 20 (22.5, rounded down).

The reduction isn't as large, but your speed is still reduced. No 5 ft step.
 

Inigo Carmine

First Post
Blindfight helps only against melee attacks, otherwise Inifiniti2000 is correct. Modifying his little questionaire you get:

Questions
1. The Defender gets total Concealment 50/50 right?
2. The Attacker loses Dex Bonus and an additional -2 to AC.
2.a. Are attacks on the Attacker considered Sneak Attacks for the Rogues?
3. The Attacker gets -2 to their hit rolls right?

4. What else am I missing?

Changes with respect to Blind-Fight.

1. Yes, but rolled twice for melee attacks. You could treat this as 25% miss chance.
2. Yes for ranged attacks, No for melee attacks.
2a. Yes for ranged attack, No for melee attacks*.
3. No. There is no penalty for the attack roll.
4. The attacker cannot take attacks of opportunity against concealed opponents (which would be everyone). He also moves at half three quarters speed and thus cannot take a 5ft-step (big penalty AFAIC). There are various skill/ability check penalties.

Also, you don't know where the enemy actually is, you have to pick squares to attack into. You can also make a listen check DC = move silent check of enemy to know generally where they're at, DC = move silent check of enemy +20 to pinpoint their square

*This becomes a debated issue when flanking. Some people say you cannot flank someone who is blind.
 



cmanos

First Post
I believe the rule is you cannot flank someone while you are blind. Consider A and B are PC's with B being blind. X is the creature they are attacking

AXB

B does not get the flanking bonus. I am not sure if A does, even though he can see fine.
 

boolean

Explorer
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
'Cause the FAQ said so, at some point or another. It might still do so.

EDIT:

It doesn't, and didn't as far back as January of this year. Maybe it was a RotG article?

It was in the 3.0 FAQ.
 

Stalker0

Legend
boolean said:
The reduction isn't as large, but your speed is still reduced. No 5 ft step.

Well according to the post I saw above, it says half speed. Now is that wrong, does it say somewhere simply hampered speed or does it actually say half speed?
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Stalker0 said:
Well according to the post I saw above, it says half speed. Now is that wrong, does it say somewhere simply hampered speed or does it actually say half speed?
As pointed out earlier, the question to be answered for this is whether you are hampered because of 'darkness' when you are blind. If yes, then it doesn't matter if you go to half speed or not. If no, then it might matter but I'd ask the follow up like I did before. :)
 

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