Quick EL Balance question

[Mistwell]

I have a player using a new race (Niomus, from Mythic Races). The race is level adjustment 2. The LA comes from their ability to fly, and they have Electricity resistance 5 (there is nothing else special about their abilities.) Their flight is 50', manuverability average. The player is starting at level one. Instead of making them start at level 3, or not at all, or make them wait for levels, instead I want to adjust his racial abilities, and make them gradually get better.

My initial idea is to make the flight speed 20, manuverability clumsy at level one; speed 35, manu poor at level two; and finally speed 50, manu average at level 3. The PC wants to reduce the speed and eletricity resistance, but not the manuverability.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it too harsh? To soft?

Thanks,

-Mistwell

 

[CRGreathouse]

Let's say the player wants to take levels in fighter.

What you're suggesting, as far as I can tell:
As a Ftr1 he'd fly poorly and be in a first-level group; as a Ftr2 he'd fly moderately and be in a second-level group; as a Ftr3 he'd have all normal racial abilities and be in a third-level group.

The way it's normally done:
As a Ftr1 he'd have all normal racial abilities and be in a third-level group.

If I understand you correctly, he'd be much more powerful this way. Do I?

 

[Mistwell]

I don't know about "much more" powerful, but yes, he would have the ability to fly at all levels, where others cannot fly without the aid of a spell. This advantage would be dulled at lower levels, but ultimately he is not being penalized the two levels.

 

[CRGreathouse]

So, basically, they get something for nothing?

 

[Mistwell]

Not nothing....the special abilities are not nearly as useful at lower levels. But yes, they get more than many other races get. Note that this isn't a powergaming situation. The race is chosen mostly for role playing reasons, not so they can race around in the air and attack poor defenseless ground-based monsters at will.

 

[CRGreathouse]

No, I meant nothing. What does the player give up? Normally, 2 levels is considered a "fair trade", but this player loses *nothing*.

I see a serious balance issue here.

 

[Mistwell]

You do not "lose" two levels with a LA. Remember, it's the low levels, which come quickly. You are also with a higher level group, thus those exp points come faster for you as well. The normal way of dealing with LA is to "delay" by only really 2-3 game sessions some of your "abilities" (levels, which equate to certain abilities like more spells, hps, skills, feats, and the like). By reducing those racial abilities in the lower levels, you are essentially accomplishing the same goal, delaying advantages for several game sessions. In every normal LA situation I have experienced, the player catches up to the level of the other players in the group fairly quickly. They don't really even notice the loss at all by level 5-6 (It's the same as solo'ing an ogre really).

Ask any player of a 20th level character if delaying 6000 exp during their PC "career" is, in their mind, the same as "losing" two full levels of experience, and you will see what I am getting at. It isn't really the same thing. It's just a way to represent a slight delay.

 

[Victim]

Revised versions of the ELC rules replace the effective XP loss with level replacement. A first level half dragon (ELC 4?) is a fifth level character in every way, including XP.

 

[CRGreathouse]

You do not "lose" two levels with a LA. Remember, it's the low levels, which come quickly. You are also with a higher level group, thus those exp points come faster for you as well. The normal way of dealing with LA is to "delay" by only really 2-3 game sessions some of your "abilities" (levels, which equate to certain abilities like more spells, hps, skills, feats, and the like).

No, it isn't. Aasimar gain their 1st character level at 1,000 XP instead of at 0 XP and their 9th character level at 45,000 XP instead of 36,000 XP. It puts them one full level behind at *all* levels.

Look up the rules.

 

[GuardianLurker]

I have a player using a new race (Niomus, from Mythic Races). The race is level adjustment 2. The LA comes from their ability to fly, and they have Electricity resistance 5 (there is nothing else special about their abilities.) Their flight is 50', manuverability average. The player is starting at level one. Instead of making them start at level 3, or not at all, or make them wait for levels, instead I want to adjust his racial abilities, and make them gradually get better.

My initial idea is to make the flight speed 20, manuverability clumsy at level one; speed 35, manu poor at level two; and finally speed 50, manu average at level 3. The PC wants to reduce the speed and eletricity resistance, but not the manuverability.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it too harsh? To soft?

Thanks,

-Mistwell

While (IMO) there's nothing iherently wrong with "staged" ECL, like you propose (after all the half-dragon template has officially been converted into a prestige class [Dragon Disciple]), your solution is *much* too lenient.

Flying is a MAJOR bonus for any character (and is probably an ECL of +2 all by itself, IMO), and the electricity resistance is likewise pretty good. In game terms, this race has the equivalent of a permanent 1st-level spell (resistance), and a permanent (but slightly less effective) 3rd-level spell (fly). Also, with a 50' movement rate, this character will probably be the fastest in your game, at speeds equivalent to a mid-level Monk.

I would suggest this progression instead (as the absolute minimum):
1st : NOTHING
2nd : Electricity Resistance
3rd : Flight

A better one might be :
1st : NOTHING
2nd : Electricity Resistance
3rd : Flight (20'/clumsy)
4th : Flight (35'/poor)
5th : Flight (50'/avg)

I would also strongly suggest you examine the Half-Dragon template (from MM) and the Dragon Disciple class (from T&B) - if you can justify the "blood" expressing itself later in the player's career, a similar PrC is probably the way to go.

At any rate, the ability to gain levels while gaining the racial abilities is a minor, but noticeable, benefit. By the end of his career, a PC with these staged abilities will be 2 HD, a few spells, a number of skill points, and one ability point, AHEAD of his normal ECL'd counterpart.