Quick question: Shimmering Blade, rogue 23 encounter

[Starfox]

The intersetion of {Opportunity Actions} and {Free Actions] is empty. As is the intersection of {Opportunity Actions} and {No Actions}.

This is where we disagree. As I just answered abyssaldeath, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Very stimulating discussion tough.

I know there is a risk that I am making the mistake of refusing to "kill my darlings" - that I could be hanging on to a faulty line of reasoning just because of the beautiful results it produces. If this was physics, I'd be inclined to doubt my results more. But it is not; it is gaming books written by people whose powers of logic we know very little about and should not overestimate. I think common sense has more application here than logic. And by my common sense, my solution just works better.

 

[abeattie]

Saying that "They are all different Triggered Action Types with their own rules. Unfortunately, Free Actions and No Actions were never given any rules" is too much of a contradiction for me to accept and implies ineptitude among the designers. I like to say "never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence", but here I have to say "do not ascribe to incompetence that which can be explained by misunderstanding" instead.

But this is not logical reasoning, it is common sense reasoning. If it fails to convince, I cannot prove anything. I still think we have to agree to disagree.

PS: Sadly, with my reading, the phrase (from PH1 p 169) "Two action types—opportunity actions and immediate actions—require triggers." becomes meaningless too, and this supports your argument. I think we are both over-reading the rules looking for logic and finding copy-paste errors instead. In the end it is a matter of taste. DS.

Well, let me try one last stab at this . . .

There are four types of actions that can take place on another's turn -- each plays a unique role in limiting the economy of actions. (bear in mind that there are a few articles still kicking around from before 4e went live discussing how much attention the devs gave to the economy of actions):

Immediate actions: only one allowed between the end your turn and the beginning of your next turn

Opportunity Actions: allow only one of this type of action per actor.

Free Actions: allow as many as the judge will allow.

Not an Action: no limit / the PC is not actually acting when the effect is triggered.

These four action types allow the devs to control how often a power can be used outside your own turn. Immediate for only once in all the intervening turns, opportunity for once per actor, free for more than once per actor, and not an action for more than once - even if the DM might want to say no -- no actions aren't discretionary.