Quickdraw needed for throwing muliple daggers?

[Big J Money]

When in doubt, default to common sense. Is there really a compelling game-balance reason to nerf thrown-weapon users over archers and crossbowmen? If not, it's probably safe to assume that "load time" includes drawing the subsequent thrown weapons, and not explicitly calling it out was an oversight.

This is what I was thinking.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now I make an attack .. I have one in my hand, do I even need to draw the rest?

If you can make use of the weapon while it's still in its scabbard, then why do projectile weapons need the note about the load time? Presumably they'll work fine if the crossbow bolts are sitting in the quiver as well, and loading is unnecessary...

-Hyp.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, my point is, if you're throwing it, why shouldn't it return?
I know magic throwing doesn't say it does, but eh ...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Implying that the magical thrown weapon returns is fair, because the power implies you throw it.

If we're treating Blinding Barrage with a magical dagger as a collection of ranged attacks, rather than a close attack, though, it should provoke OAs.

-Hyp.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Not saying that at all.
What I am saying is that for mechanical purposes, if you're throwing it (and not as a ranged attack, but throwing it at all), the weapon should return.

As I find it nigh-impossible to think of any reason why a magic thrown weapon wouldn't return, even if casually tossed into the trash.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not saying that at all.
What I am saying is that for mechanical purposes, if you're throwing it (and not as a ranged attack, but throwing it at all), the weapon should return.

Well, there's 'should', and there's "Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon automatically returns to the wielder's hand after a ranged attack with the weapon is resolved".

Have you just resolved a ranged attack with the weapon? It automatically returns to your hand.

Have you just tossed it in the trash? There's nothing in the rules that has it automatically returning to your hand.

-Hyp.

 

[icarusfallz]

Personally, I don't have a problem with a character having a handful of daggers/shuriken/slingstones/arrows drawn and ready at the start of a fight, holding them in his off hand. If a player stated that he was "readying" his weapons in this manner, I'd allow it as a standard action.

 

[MarkB]

Well, it depends what you consider to be canonical.

Customer Service says a single magical thrown weapon will do, because it comes back. But there are two problems with that - firstly, all the attacks in a blast seem to be assumed to occur simultaneously, not sequentially, whereas the CustServ answer forces them to be sequential;

Where do you find that assumption? It goes against the concept of "load free", which assumes that you are drawing and loading additional ammunition fast enough to be part of the attack action, not that you are loading up your hand crossbow with half a dozen bolts at once and firing them all at seperate targets with one pull of the trigger; and it also invalidates the use of Quick Draw for blast or burst attacks, since Quick Draw still assumes that you are throwing a weapon, then drawing and throwing another, then drawing and throwing another - it merely expedites that process to allow it to occur as part of a single attack action.

secondly, and more importantly, magical thrown weapons return after a ranged attack, and Blinding Barrage is not a ranged attack - it is a close attack. There's no rule that says a magical thrown weapon returns after a close or area attack.

I don't believe this is a distinction the authors intended to make, and 4e's rules are written in a sufficiently relaxed style that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. If you throw a magical thrown weapon as an attack, it comes back.

 

[AtomicPope]

As I find it nigh-impossible to think of any reason why a magic thrown weapon wouldn't return, even if casually tossed into the trash.

If you threw it in the trash it wouldn't return out of rejection

 

[Big J Money]

Personally, I don't have a problem with a character having a handful of daggers/shuriken/slingstones/arrows drawn and ready at the start of a fight, holding them in his off hand. If a player stated that he was "readying" his weapons in this manner, I'd allow it as a standard action.

This sounds like a good point, too. A character can only wield two daggers total, but that doesn't mean he can't hold (negating the ability to wield in that hand) several daggers in his off hand.

So I think I'm going to house-rule this way (just in case -- I'm not saying it's needed): the player can obviously, with a minor action, draw a dagger to wield it. Also as a minor action, a character can draw several daggers at once to hold them in a hand.

Even if the player keeps only one dagger at the ready in hostile areas, it's a simple minor action to prepare for an attack that will let several daggers fly. Of course, with quickdraw, none of this is ever necessary. The character can simply let daggers go flying straight out of their holster.