Quicker than Eye VS Expert Tactician - Rogues in Combat

[Rashak Mani]

Combat Wise which is the better feat ?

In practice/in game what have been the feats that really helped your thieves/rogues in combat ?

Bluff how useful really is it ? I would think you can bluff a guy at most twice a combat before he really wises up. The Bluff one round and hit on the other seems too slow for 3rd Ed. combat.

Other feats ?

(i´m thinking of making a rogue... but I didnt want to go the super dex way and quicker than the eye need 19 dex )

 

[Saeviomagy]

If your DM thinks that bluff is "hey, look over there" and therefore should be limited to once or twice a combat, smack him in the chops from me.

Bluff is more than that. If I feint left, and then swing right, next time, you may not go for the feint. If I'm good at what I do, I can pick that. So the next time I go left, it's the real thing. If bluffs were as simple as the first example, poker would be a dead game.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Its true... we musnt forget its a body motion/language thing more than a traditional "vocal" bluff.

So how have your uses of Bluff gone in combat ?

 

[Rashak Mani]

bump

Wanna get some rogue combat stories

 

[Wicht]

Rogue combat feats IMO include
Improved Initiative,
Bluff,
and Weapon Finesse

My preference as a rogue would be to take these and then take Weapon Focus (Rapier) and Improved Critical (Rapier) after which you should be doing almost as much damage everytime as the greatsword weilding fighter. A keen edged rapier weilded in the right hands after all criticals on a 12-20 IIRC. Add to this the sneak attack extra damage and you are going to be able to dish out some damage.

 

[WizarDru]

Wanna get some rogue combat stories

I could offer some, but most of them are:

So the rogue went to attack, but missed on the first shot, right? Then the archer riddled it full of arrows, and the mage used a lightning bolt on it, and it died.

or

The rogue managed to hit with one of her attacks, but the bodak couldn't be crit'ed or sneak attacked, so it ignored her as the Paladin's blade bit deep, cutting the undead horror in half.


That sort of thing.

On the other hand, one of the most devastating attack in the game belongs to the rogue, who was hidden in the shadows when the villain, unaware that he had teleported right next to her, was on the recieving end of a cuissanart o' death. Made up for the villian's Blade Barrier, I can tell you.


Truthfully, this all depends on your concept. If you don't want to make a rogue with a high dex, than you may consider multiclassing with fighter. This will give you an excellent synthesis of feats and skills, allowing you to do good regular damage, and occassionally do EXCELLENT damage.

As for Quicker than the Eye versus Expert Tactician, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Quicker than the Eye is best to get a sneak attack when you might not otherwise get one. This is a very useful ability, but suffers from the same problems as far as sneak attacks application goes. Expert Tactician is wonderful for the extra action...but with a regular rogue's attack bonus, it's not as exciting as it might be. YMMV.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Recipe for a combat (munchkin )rogue:

1 level of Ranger (Also check Masters of the Wild for the urban varient. This single levels grants you two-weapon fighting, ambidexterity, track, +1 BAB, and some nice skills. If you are going th assassin route, you can probably take human as your favored enemy.)
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse (Short sword) - Duel wield them. You'll get the bonus to both.
Combat Reflexes
Expert Tactician
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Improved Critical (Short Sword)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Try to get combat reflexes ASAP.

If you can get a full attack sneak attack, your enemy will be in a world of hurts as all those d6s come crashing down on him. Also, improved crit and 2 keen short swords (15-20) are pretty nasty. Not as good as the keen rapier (12-20), but you'll get your weapon finesse on both attacks.

Also, don't forget to wear a buckler. A +1 isn't all that great, but if it is magical and mithral, it can be real nice and outweighs the penalties to the off-hand attack.

A level of monk is never a bad thing. Shurikens are fun when you add sneak attack damage and if you are using Oriental Adventures, Unbalancing Strike is real sweet coupled with Expert Tactician.

 

[WizarDru]

A level of monk is never a bad thing. Shurikens are fun when you add sneak attack damage and if you are using Oriental Adventures, Unbalancing Strike is real sweet coupled with Expert Tactician.

You do know that you only add sneak attack damage per attack, right? You can throw multiple shurikens per attack, but you only add sneak attack damage once, not once for each shuriken.

 

[Westwind]

Also note that using 2 weapons means you don't get the bonus from the buckler (although you get gain any special properties, like fortification).

 

[bwgwl]

why does it have to be Quicker than the Eye vs. Expert Tactician?

a really good rogue will take both and get two sneak attacks when he distracts his opponent.