Quicker than the Eye and AoO
- Thread starter Hypersmurf
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Whoa, whoa.
Bob the crippled dog has three legs.
Xorns have three legs.
Therefore Bob the crippled dog is a Xorn.
Quicker than the Eye denies Dex bonus.
Flatfooted denies Dex bonus.
Therefore Quicker than the Eye makes you flatfooted.
It doesn't work that way. Uncanny Dodge (retain Dex bonus when flatfooted) doesn't help you against QttE. Iajutsu Focus (bonuses against flatfooted opponent) gives no advantage with QttE.
"Flatfooted" does not allow you to make AoOs. Nowhere does it say "denied Dex bonus" has the same penalty.
Plus, QttE only denies them their Dex bonus if you make an attack. No Expert Tactitian if you drink a potion instead.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Is the Ogre aware that there are invisible rogues in the vicinity?
Not necessarily via a Spot or Listen "discern presence" check, but perhaps because he saw his buddy gout blood, and an elf with a sword suddenly appear, then disappear again...
Or is his first hint that there's anyone within five hundred feet of him (for the first time in days) when the elf's sword slides into him?
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
See above.
Flatfooted and Denied Dex bonus are not the same thing.
Flatfooted is simply one of many conditions that can deny Dex bonus, and also disallows AoOs.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf said:
Since the rules are fuzzy one this. I go with.
If it Quaks like a Duck, it must be a Duck.
Logic is the only thing to use here.
Lets see if the Revised Ed defines this more then we will see. Till then
To me and others here, Core rules say No AoO against Invisible Foes.
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Not necessarily. A polymorphed creature retains its type.
A wizard who looks like a duck is still "humanoid".
Look at Uncanny Dodge. It allows you to retain your Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker, but not when immobilised.
"Flat-footed" and "struck by an invisible attacker" are two separate conditions that both cause one to lose one's Dex bonus.
Logic is the only thing to use - fine.
1. "Flatfooted" is a condition that causes on to lose Dex bonus.
2. "Struck by an invisible attacker" is a condition that causes on to lose Dex bonus.
3. "Flatfooted" prevents one from making AoOs.
Q: Does "struck by an invisible attacker" prevent one from making AoOs?
A: Insufficient information.
Q: Does "wearing padded armor" prevent one from making AoOs?
A: Insufficient information.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
That is indeed the position one side of this debate is taking.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf said:
Please reread my post. Notice the part where I said "almost".
I know the difference between flat-footedness and 'denied dex bonus'. When you QttE successfully, your foe 'look elsewhere' while you take a partial action. Are you saying that this means nothing happens if you choose to do something else besides attack? I interpret this to mean they don't see your next action, period. So, treat as invisible or hidden, and require an appropriate Listen check to discover before allowing an AoO for an action that warrants it (pick up dropped weapon, drink potion, etc.). That would be going against the point of the feat though, imo. I think the intent of the feat is to disallow AoO's if they fail the spot check, period. This could EASILY be reworded to make more clear, as the rules fail to tell us what to do (games-mechanics-wise) with non-attack actions in conjunction with this feat.And you can get your Expert Tactician attack in easily enough if you have a ring of Blinking or Invisibility (no mid-high level rogue should be without'em) or have either cast on you.
