Quicker than the Eye feat - broken?

[Victim]

Excuse me, where is it written that Uncanny Dodge does not help against feinting and so? The description says you don't lose your dex bonus except held, stunned and so on... feinting is lots weaker than somehow incapacitating you.

Was this in the FAQ somewhere? I just see no reason why someone who didn't even see how an arrow was shot from behind dodge it but a simple feint fools him.

No, the description says that you get to keep your dex bonus when attacked by an invisible enemy, and when flatfooted. Climbing, feints, balancing on narrow surfaces without proper training still denies him dex.

A feint would trick the defender into dodging in one direction, and then attack in another. The uncanny dodge is overruled because character is intentionally commiting to another dodge.

 

[IceBear]

I have a rogue with 21 tumble. I roll a 4 and she can tumble right through an opponent's square.

This is why I like the variant from Song and Silence. The rogue that has specialized in tumbling will still probably succeed, but with the opposed check it's no longer a sure thing. Then again, I've only had rogue NPCs in my campaign and no rogue players so I've only heard praise from the players.

IceBear

 

[Corlon]

I love this feat.

It helps when you don't want to flank with your small amount of HP, but the only one attack makes it not as good at flanking, and at high levels, wouldn't you rather have 3 attacks (if you normally use ranged combat and have a flaming shocking bow type weapons) than one attack with sneak attack.
Plus, for 20k gp you can pretty much do the same thing. Ring of invisibility as a partial action, shoot as a standard, and they're flat footed (unless the ring requires a standard action...I'll have to check that.)
Plus as my dms normally hate this feat with a passion, whenever I try to use it against anyone they apply the feinting in combat penalties (-9999999999999 or somethign for vermin, stupid giant spiders).
I don't know if other dms use this rule but it does make sense.

I don't feel it's broken, but I'm sure there are ways to make it extremely cheap. As stated earlier, if your characters are using it the wrong way, then think of something to discourage that.

BTW, I haven't read all of these posts cause I don't have enough time, so if I've been repeating things, sorry.

 

[Darklone]

No, the description says that you get to keep your dex bonus when attacked by an invisible enemy, and when flatfooted. Climbing, feints, balancing on narrow surfaces without proper training still denies him dex.

A feint would trick the defender into dodging in one direction, and then attack in another. The uncanny dodge is overruled because character is intentionally commiting to another dodge.

Sorry, but the PHB description only lists invisibility and flatfooted as examples for when you retain your dodge bonus, it does not list them explicitely. IMHO it makes a clear difference between hold, paralyze and similar effects that still waste your dex bonus and between invisibility and other effects that only distract you a bit. I would put feint to the second group, thus Uncanny Dodge would help...

But I will check the PHB again.

 

[IceBear]

Here is the quote from the rogue section of the SRD:

Uncanny Dodge: At 3rd level and above, she retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

From what I remember, lots of smarter people than me (Caliban, etc) use it this way. It makes the power TOO powerful otherwise, IMHO.

IceBear

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. Yeah, I remember that I used it ONLY as retaining the dex modifier to AC in the beginning... it didn't help against sneak attacks. That wasn't too weak either.

Searching for balance... Game designer must be a BAD job.