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Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

Should a DM lay down ground rules like those described?


KB9JMQ

First Post
Well some of your rules would piss me off because I feel you are expecting me to be terrible right off the bat.
Others seem ok and are fair I just would think they wouldn't need stated.
I have never had a group problem though cause my players were friends first so we already had a gaming baseline to work with.
 

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Odhanan

Adventurer
Seems to me like your list is exagerated. Much like "army-style exagerated".

When I start the campaign, I have ground guidelines. Getting the character ready in time. Show up on time. Try to not break the game with OOC all the time. Try to play constructively to enhance the pleasure of everyone, not just your own. Respect the DM's rulings and discuss them after the game if you feel the need to talk about it. These kinds of things.

When problems arise, I've never found anything that couldn't be solved by simply discussing after/between the game/s.

If I come at your game table and you present me with a list of rules I should follow or get out, I won't play with you. I'm not your dog, and I don't have to submit to you. I'm here to have a good time with friends, which isn't exactly the same thing - it takes communication and understanding rather than submission and toughness.

According to my view of gaming, something shocked me big time in your list:
9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. You can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming.
"Nothing personal?" Everything, IME, is personal about a gaming. And what's wrong with being personal anyway? It's like people just say that to avoid comments back. Reminds me of a show where a fired employee was saying something along the lines of "not personal? I spend 10 hours a day in here, I feed my children because of it, I'm good at it, and I love it. EVERYTHING about it is personal, dammit!"
 
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Dextolen

Community Supporter
Emirikol said:
Since I saw that a similar thread on this issue had gone bad, perhaps we do this a different way.

I've been through many groups over the past 24 years (I'm 33 now) and discovered (again) that there comes a time where you just need to quit a group and start over somewhere else. It's never personal when you quit a group. It's just what's best for your sanity. Afterall, why let someone else wreck YOUR good time.
I recently quit a group that I'd been with for several years. Most of the players had kind of gone sour and the 'big idea' was scattered. So, I just quit the whole thing and started over. I just joined a new group nearby and am happier already. As a DM, I think this is even easier because there's ALWAYS a demand for DM's.
Since it was a new group, I talked to the guy who set it up and he and I laid down a few ground rules that we went over with the group. Nearly everyone in the group agreed on all of the points because nearly all of us had similar BAD experiences in the past. We have limited game time (2-3 sessions / month for 4-5 hours per session).

Here are our ground rules:
1. Everybody fills out the potential player questionaire (email me if you want it) and NOBODY invites anyone else without the whole group's permission.

2. People are either here to game or are not welcome here. If you're not here to game, you're in the wrong place so g.t.h.o.

3. Nobody sits at the table until their character is finished and has been reviewed by the DM (that includes levelling). You didn't get it done by game time and had the last 2 weeks to do it? Oh darn. Go home and stop wasting everyone elses time.

4. Players police their own. That means that the DM is not a baby sitter. The DM assigns 2 or more players to set the offending player straight or the game is over. Peer pressure is our rule.

5. Nobody questions the DM's rulings during the game unless it would mean instant death for someone's character otherwise and they've already looked up the rule and have their finger on the actual paragraph and are about to read it out loud. If it's abiguuous, the DM's ruling stands [period].

6. Players who create stupidly munchkin characters can expect a stupidly short life and not at the expense of the other PC's lives.

7. Time is of the essence. We don't take smoke breaks. We don't stop to order food.

8. Want x.p.? Participate. All x.p. is given anonymously via email and will vary 10-50% from the next PC's.

9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. You can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming.

10. Every couple months we review some of this stuff and come up with new rules.

11. Every player can expect to have their character die at some point.

Of course, it's not that harsh in reality, but we lay down the law the first session. I've done this in the past and found that players want to know stuff like that. House rules and ground rules. If a DM can't get off his butt to set these, I'd think twice.

Others you wish you'd done (or will do?)

jh
..

Wow, how to make a fun game extremely un-fun. Voting players out? Go Home and stop wasting people's time? No smoke/food breaks?

If the attitude in these rules is true, I wouldn't touch your gaming group with a 10 foot pole. This makes me sooo glad I game with friends.
 

petenik

First Post
"9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. You can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming."

Honestly, I think the writer of these rules needs to reread the bolded part and take it to heart. Do you really need a set of rules to know when a player is ticking you off and when its appropriate to either leave or kick them out of the group?
 

freebfrost

Explorer
I would never resort to such grade-school level tactics, and I would never even consider playing for a group that used these.

Aside from the fact that the rules are ridiculously anal, any group having to stoop to this level clearly is so caught up in a DM vs. Player(s) struggle that it would never be any fun.

It's kind of sad really.
 

Vexed

First Post
petenik said:
"9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. You can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming."

Honestly, I think the writer of these rules needs to reread the bolded part and take it to heart. Do you really need a set of rules to know when a player is ticking you off and when its appropriate to either leave or kick them out of the group?


Im glad i suppose that i am fortunate that my "gaming group" is all friends of mine. We have been gaming for years, and don't have to worry about any "rules" and don't forsee anyone ever quitting the group as we are all friends outside the group. Anytime someone brought someone over to game that couldnt socialize outside of gaming, didn't stay in our gaming group. I guess that is an unsaid "rule" we have, but it works out really well for us. I hope your new group comes together for you though.

I hae to say i hate the whole "dm reviews your sheet" if you have someone that is cheating its going to be obvious and if its not so right away, people will begin to notice the uber PC... if everyone in the party is an adult then i would trust everyone to be fair about thier rolls etc. And just focus on the RP aspect of the game vs. "Why does Bob have two 18's?" In my experience that doesnt really matter... and if someone is trying to cheese it will eventually work itself out. That kind of things sounds like if it becomes a problem, its a specific person that needs to be taken aside and talked to by everyone concerned.
 

farscapesg1

First Post
I voted #2 and here are my responses to the rules;

#1 - I wish my DM had something like this. Too many players try to join and just don't mesh with the group.

#2 - AMEN!! Our current group actually games maybe 4 hours out of 7 every other Saturday. What a waste of time!!!

#3 - a little harsh, but in some cases necessary. A DM has to prepare everything for the adventure, the only thing a player has to worry about is his/her own character. Why people can't have everything ready to go on gameday, I'll never now.

#4 - Again, sometimes necessary. I know some people will have issues with this, but in our group the DM doesn't have time to sit there and go over every little detail of the characters. I help out by trying to make sure that everyone knows the rules. For example, we have one player that will try to bring in anything related to FR that he can, when we are playing Greyhawk :\ Others either can't seem to grasp basic rules, such as the fact that Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus require a +1 BAB, so only "warrior" classes can take them at 1st level. Our current system is to post all the character information on our campaign message board and then everyone go over the info looking for possible errors and then point them out.

#5 - Some things need to be questioned, especially if it is clearly black-and-white in the rules. If it is ambiguous or "grey" then the DM's ruling should be followed. If his ruling contradicts black-and-white text then it needs to be discussed. For example, our DM recently ruled that attacking an opponent engaged in a grapple with another character suffers the same 50/50 miss chance as attacking with a ranged weapon :confused: If this was put forth beforehand, I would be fine with it, but since it came up during combat the ruling had to be discussed and debated. Don't change rules unless you do it ahead of time and let everyone know.

#6 - Depends on what you classify as munchkin. For me, it is any character that dips into more than 2 or 3 prestige classes. I prefer games where you either have straight-class characters or if you decide to take a prestige class you finish it before looking at another. Basically, anything from the Character Optimization boards at Wizards is "munchkin" ;)

#7 - Breaks are needed, whether for the bathroom or a smoke break. Just keep them to a limited amount. Either plan food out ahead of time, or schedule a break to order food and then pick up the game again.

#8 - I'm not sure how to look at this. Personally, I am a shy person and don't like to talk to people much. I can get along with people, I just don't make small talk and I am very non-confrontational. When it comes to the social aspects of roleplaying, I stink. That's just who I am :(

#9 - Don't like it. If there is a reason, I can understand letting a player go, but not just because the group "voted"

#10 - Eh, add them as you go along if need be. No real comment here.

#11 - Will my character most certainly die at some point, or is there just a possibility (i.e., no pulling strings). If it's the second, fine. If it's the first, no thank you. I invest a lot of time in my characters and if you are certainly going to kill them off with no chance of avoiding it, I'll find someone else.

The only other rules would have has to do with priorities.

#12 - If you are going to miss the game, let someone know! In today's age there is no reason you can't pick up a phone, email, etc. and let the DM/Players know that you can't make it. Unless you are in a serious accident, in which case it can be excused.

#13 - This is a GAME!! Do not choose the game over real world responsibilities. We had a fellow show up while his wife was in labor at the hospital :confused: Personally, I think he should have been let go from the group just for that.
 

Emirikol

Adventurer
jdrakeh said:
(i.e., batshit crazy). I would suggest that, instead, you try drafting a social contract - a similar document where everybody in the group has some input as to what the rules are, as opposed to them being forced to accept your list of demands.


That's how we came up with this idea. I posted a question to our discussion group and everybody came up with their top 10 pet peeves.

One for example is: Taking 1.5 hours in the middle of the game to sort out chinese food did more harm to the game rather than just telling everyone to bring a subway sandwich and be ready to play from 6-10 pm. poor social skills at the outset too.

Although gamers are well-known as having only the highest standards of social graces [laugh], we thought it would be useful to set the ground rules.

We still do the 'social contract' feedback about every 10 sessions or so..and also there's the anonymous DM feedback device (which is ALWAYS a wake-up call for a DM): http://rpgworld.ath.cx/modules.php?mop=modload&name=Rate_a_GM&file=index&GMECode=on

It's funny to see how many people bitch about people in their group (or especially their experiences with the RPGA), but refuse to set even the simplest ground rules..then when they're still 3rd level after the 564th session, they blame the DM (if he didn't quit from burnout already).

jh
 

Lonely Tylenol

First Post
Emirikol said:
9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. You can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming.

How can it be "not personal" if the major reason not to game with someone is that you don't like their personality? Of course it's personal. That whole "nothing personal" thing is just a cheap way of saying "I don't want to have to defend anything I say or do, and will not entertain the possibility that it's me that's the problem and not you."
 

Chainsaw Mage

First Post
Emirikol said:
Here are our ground rules
[lots of harsh, angry rules deleted]

Of course, it's not that harsh in reality, but we lay down the law the first session. .

I'm just curious: are you serious, or if this a humorous post? At first I thought you were serious but some of these (such as "You can be voted out at any time" and "Fill out a questionnaire") seem so extreme that I'm thinking you're just kidding around.

At least I hope you are.
 

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