Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

[DonTadow]

Since I saw that a similar thread on this issue had gone bad, perhaps we do this a different way.

I've been through many groups over the past 24 years (I'm 33 now) and discovered (again) that there comes a time where you just need to quit a group and start over somewhere else. It's never personal when you quit a group. It's just what's best for your sanity. Afterall, why let someone else wreck YOUR good time.
I recently quit a group that I'd been with for several years. Most of the players had kind of gone sour and the 'big idea' was scattered. We had a few whiners, a few drunks, and too much non-gaming drama going on. So, I just quit the whole thing and started over with a couple of my players. I just joined a new group nearby and am happier already. As a DM, I think this is even easier because there's ALWAYS a demand for DM's.
Since it was a new group, I talked to the guy who set it up and he and I laid down a few ground rules that we went over with the group. Nearly everyone in the group agreed on all of the points because nearly all of us had similar BAD experiences in the past.

..

I am already building a totem in your honor.

First, like you I ditched my long standing group 2 years ago and have been happy ever since. I had the same issues as you, and I got tired of 45 minute arguments and/or fist fights every session.

In my new group my players for some reason fail to understand that there is 332 hours between games that they can build characters, update characters, ask me questions, email me character sheets, update bios and tell me about rivial things. I set up a complex website to handle player journals, forum type questions and feedback. Not to mention giving the players a chance to pat others on the back for a job wel done with a playero f the week poll. Half my players take full advantage of it. But others don't, and that disrupts the party. It's very annoying when three players have a set tactic for the next session and then have to spend 45 minutes explaining it to the other players.

Those other players always do everything 20 minutes before we game, forcing other players to wait while I review things and jot notes down of my own. What irks me is that the game was originally a six hour session, but I curbed it an hour because these same players have to get home before the babsitter leaves. All I ask is that they spend that extra hour once a week on the website giving me and their party members feedback.

This weekend I decided to institute a new policy to curb all out of game activity done in game. My way may be radical (which I know it is) and it definatly wouldn't be accepted by some groups.

I decided to nix the entire XP system. Through it away, its gone, out of here. Instead PCs will receive a multiplier (IE= 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x ect) at the end of the session and 75 karma points.
This multiplier is multipled by the number of karma points that player generates on the website during that week plus the 75 they received during that session. Players receive Karma points on the website by updating journals, posting in the weekly forum and updating character bios. The day before session I do the math, add the total to their accumaltive XP.These activities take less than 30 minutes and usually answer any conceibable question they may ask.

Radical, but its my hope that thep cs whom actually spend time on their character during the week are rewarded more so than the players whom bumble through the group. I also reiterated at my game that no one's a permanent game and though my objective is fun for all, I don't plan on changing the group's play style to accomdoate one or two players because its not fair to the players who have been in the campaign for years.

 

[farscapesg1]

I'm sort of surprised that there are so many "you are a control freak" type of responses here

I guess a lot of people have the option of gaming with people they have known for a long time. I had to pack things up after graduating college and moved down to Texas with my wife. Finding a gaming group took a really long time. Every time I thought I found a group, it didn't work out. One disbanded after a character vs. character argument (that one of the players took too personally) regarding nature vs. nurture theories. Another group kept moving the game location to often and my play style just didn't mesh with theirs.

The current group that I am gaming with are all pretty good people (with a few exceptions). However, they aren't the type of friends that I would hang around when not gaming. I don't go out for drinks with them, go to the movies with them, and so on. I get along with them and enjoy gaming with them (when we actually game) but otherwise there just isn't enough "common ground". Only one of them is married, and he needs to sit back and take a serious look at things (the one that showed up to game when his wife was in labor).

I game with the group because I get along with all of them, but when I decide to spend 7 hours of my weekend gaming, I should be gaming. If all I am doing is sitting around shooting the bull, my time is better spent with my wife Maybe I do take my gaming time too seriously in that regard. If I have to miss a game, so be it, but if I'm there I expect to be gaming and not bs-ing. When our first-born comes in March, I will have to take a break from the group and if things haven't been ironed out somewhat, I may not be going back, especially with the choice of spending 7 hours to get 3 hours of gaming in, or spending the day with my wife and child. Not a hard choice

So, in response to most of the "I wouldn't touch your game" responses, I would say "Where are you and why don't you live in Houston!!!"

 

[DonTadow]

I would never resort to such grade-school level tactics, and I would never even consider playing for a group that used these.

Aside from the fact that the rules are ridiculously anal, any group having to stoop to this level clearly is so caught up in a DM vs. Player(s) struggle that it would never be any fun.

It's kind of sad really.

I'd take offense to calling it gradeschool. I love the wording. It is very professional. When you go to a job, theres an employee manual.

Yeah I know, d and d is not a job. Ok lets look at other recreational activities that have rules.

Ok, when you go to a park there are a list of rules. When you go to an arcade there are a list of rules when you go to a restaurant there are a list of rules (NO shoes , no shirt, no service).

When you go to a hotel room, there are a ton of rules listed. When you go to an amusement park there are rules.

These rules are no different other rules in any other social or friendly gathering. My thing is, if you have no intention on ever breaking them, then you don't have to worry about how they're worded or if they apply to you.

I agree with you on all of them, even the food. My gf was very upset that her second time dm'n was rudely interupted when the new player all but forced the party (complaining about how diabetic he was and how badly he needed food)to stop for an hour so that he could order pizza and retrieve it. It was clearely stated that everyone bring food to the game as there would be no breaks because the sessions are only 4 hours. This isa good example in that hte person has a really good reason for the break, but rules are rules regardless and that's one rule there to make sure the game proceeds. I was not the only player whom was upset with this player.

 

[Emirikol]

> could just as well spend time with my wife

I sympathize with you. I went through the same thing. We had two people in the group that just couldn't stop the cross-table talk. Damit, they'd been with us for a while and are nice enough, but they just sucked to game with. Every session (of the 4 hours we get) started out with 1 hour ordering food and flappin the breeeze.

> website

Same for me. We have a discussion group. Plenty of room to 'discuss' whatever. 332 hours to discuss whatever. That's why it's called a 'discussion' group and the game is called 'the game.'

> x.p.

I like your idea for getting rid of x.p. Actually, I'm quite an @224013 about x.p. I will absolutely shaft players who don't contribute. Yea, it's one thing to be a quiet player who participates. It's another thing to be disruptive or absent or to walk off to have a smoke every 5 minutes..or to run to the store in the middle of the game.

I was at a table with a friend of mine who finally laid into this one guy at an RPGA event when he showed up 15 minutes late for an LG game and didn't have his character ready. It went like this, "YOU COULDN'T PLAN AHEAD? You need to waste everyone's time because you're irresponsible? We've all got kids and lives and jobs (and did I mention lives?) and because you're some homeless goth college drug addict who can't remember what direction to put his pants on you think you're so special that you get to waste our time?" He didn't even need to let the player know that he wasn't welcome at the table. Nevertheless, the player when and WHINED to the game staff and my buddy got a nice little lecture (and a high 5 from the rest of us). So, I guess it should have gone like this: "It's ok you're late Johnny. We appreciate you showing up at all. No, it's ok if you have to run to subway in a few minutes too and don't forget to walk off in the middle of the session to visit the dealer's room. We'll stop the game and wait for you to finish your character. Don't worry, if we don't finish the scenario in the 4 hours, it's ok. We didn't want the x.p. or g.p. anyways (maybe that's too snyde) and we always like people like you..because you're our friend."

I feel so dirty, elitist, and exclusionary. I suppose it would be different if I were dying for players..but like I say, I regularly get applications to the group.

jh

..

 

[farscapesg1]

In my new group my players for some reason fail to understand that there is 332 hours between games that they can build characters, update characters, ask me questions, email me character sheets, update bios and tell me about rivial things. I set up a complex website to handle player journals, forum type questions and feedback. Not to mention giving the players a chance to pat others on the back for a job wel done with a playero f the week poll. Half my players take full advantage of it. But others don't, and that disrupts the party. It's very annoying when three players have a set tactic for the next session and then have to spend 45 minutes explaining it to the other players.

Those other players always do everything 20 minutes before we game, forcing other players to wait while I review things and jot notes down of my own. What irks me is that the game was originally a six hour session, but I curbed it an hour because these same players have to get home before the babsitter leaves. All I ask is that they spend that extra hour once a week on the website giving me and their party members feedback.

You are not alone I set up our group's message board system and everyone acted like it was a great idea. Of course, we have a couple that can't seem to remember to use it, or don't post anything useful. One player can take the time to check email at school, but won't bother responding and has yet to ever even sign onto the boards. Another recently lost his Internet access (which is understandable). A third only posts silly comments and nothing important. The DM's biggest request was to make sure everyone had their character information posted, so 3 of the 6 players haven't done that

I personally hate the players that you mention. Those that can't be bothered to have their character information ready before gaming, and then insist on changing the game time to suit their schedule. If they can't be bothered to put a little effort into the game, then why should the group put effort into helping them out????

I like your XP idea It shows a little more dedication to the game than the usual group, and that is a good thing IMO. If I ever pick up the DM reigns, I may use something similar.

 

[Xath]

I have a suggestion about your food rule. Our group used to have the problem that we'd take too much time out of the game to order/go out for food. Recently we've all started to bring a mostly prepared dish to the game. We put it in the oven and check on it during the game (since we play near the kitchen). Then we serve food when it's done and can continue gaming while having a nice homey meal.

For example, last session we had: spiral cut ham, macaroni & cheese cassarole, garlic french cut green beans, salad, rolls, and fresh baked pumpkin pie. It was delicious and didn't detract from the game.

 

[Emirikol]

Recently we've all started to bring a mostly prepared dish to the game. QUOTE]

That's something we used to do. We'd get those take n bake pizza's but it still came down to eating up (no pun intended ) time during gaming when we should be gaming and not slicing up pizza. i suppose it would work really well if you work in an extra hour into your session. 5-6pm - we're makin' pizza and eatin' pizza; 6-11 gaming.

My group all has jobs and works until 5 on fridays (when we actually get the time to game) with commute time across town it's a 6:15pm start time and people bring their food.

The point is that if you do that, let people know ahead of time as one of your written or unwritten rules.

jh
BTW, you're all welcome to use my advertisement that I put in one of those last posts to keep the supply of new gamers coming in. Eventually all campaigns end and you want to only have to take the players with you that you enjoy gaming with...
~ Emirikol's Treatise on Elitist and Exclusionary Gaming Tendencies

 

[farscapesg1]

I have a suggestion about your food rule. Our group used to have the problem that we'd take too much time out of the game to order/go out for food. Recently we've all started to bring a mostly prepared dish to the game. We put it in the oven and check on it during the game (since we play near the kitchen). Then we serve food when it's done and can continue gaming while having a nice homey meal.

For example, last session we had: spiral cut ham, macaroni & cheese cassarole, garlic french cut green beans, salad, rolls, and fresh baked pumpkin pie. It was delicious and didn't detract from the game.

Yeah, that works as long as everyone participates. In our group, only a couple of us did that when we tried it. Now we just order pizza or the DM buys/makes something before we game.

 

[kenobi65]

Emirikol,

Having looked at the ad you posted, I wonder if that's not part of your problem.

You're fussy about the kinds of players you get, and have some distinct "ground rules" about how you play. Maybe you should consider mentioning some of that in your ad. Might help screen out some of the people you wouldn't want to play with before they even got to you.

 

[Kristivas]

Some of the rules I like, but on others.. you seem like an @$$hat the way you stated them. (not to say you're an @$$hate personally, but the general attitude)

If someone told me I could be voted out, I'd vote myself out right there and tell them to lick me in a very foul place.

If I got hungry in the middle of a game, I'd do this:
1. Pass around a notecard asking people if they want <insert food> from <insert place>? If yes, then write down what and how much $$ they were contributing. If they want something from somewhere else, they're on their own.
2. Find a time when my character was in the background.. say the rogue was gathering info or the cleric was preaching to the masses or somesuch. I'd go to the bathroom and call on a cordless or cell phone and make the order.
3. When the food finally comes, I'd tell the dude next to me to make decisions for me in combat and take my turn. Otherwise, my guy would 'doze off' leaning against the wall. Then, I'd go get it and come back and eat.
--Not too much game distraction there, just let people be responsible for themselves.

Now, I'll combine 2 things from your list I have issues with. "Munchkin" characters and "your character will die". That would FORCE me to make a fighter with as much con and str as I could, then take a level or two of cleric for Divine Favor/Extra Will save/Spare healing. I would NEVER lead when exploring because of your "save-or-die" sounding traps that don't do damage but magically kill. I'd stay in the middle of the marching order. Aww, so the wizard doesn't want to lead? Screw him. I'd focus totally on survival because of that just to try and outdo you. The only way you'd kill me in that game would be "the ceiling falls and crushes the guy in the middle" or "all 900 goblin archers fire, and they only shoot you" kinda thing, and it would probably look obvious.

I don't mind a character death, but I refuse to play with a DM who randomly will kill off a char just to flaunt his mighty DM power. I've thwarted many a DM who thought they could kill off characters of mine. They had to resort to sending terribly-hard challenges or just plain old lameness to finish my guy off (the ceiling collapses and crushes you. no need to roll). In each situation, the DM looked stupid doing so.

...And I have had characters die. It's cool when it happens, but it's lame if it's just a crappy DM saying "well, this party's doing a little too good, time to knock em down a peg" and boom, one of the characters dies in a rather dumb situation.

When I play, I want to make an effective character. I played a Half-orc fighter in a game with low cha and very little skills. With my Role Playing, he was one of the best characters to interact with. He was dumb, but he would take words the party's wizard used and try to use them effectively. Sometimes it was funny, sometimes he made no sense. But, he made a lasting impression on the other players and most NPCs we met.

I love a nice mix of combat, puzzles, and role playing to my games. Just because a character doesn't have Gather info, Diplomacy, Bluff, or Sense Motive, doesn;'t mean they can't contribute to the role playing aspect. With my Half-Orc example.. when the rogue had to ask the tough questions and his rolls sometimes went sour and the local thieves guild wanted to shank him in the back alley, who was there to deliver some great-sworded justice? Good ole Thrash.

Everyone has their place, even those of us who like to create effective characters.


...oh, and I did like your questionaire. I'd be glad to fill one of those out for a gaming group if it ever came up. It's good to get an idea of the people you're playing with. I just think the anality of your rules would drive some good players away.