Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

[DonTadow]

This is WAAAAY over the top. If I got something which included this is my mailbox - the person who sent it would find himself gaming with someone else lickety split.

Yes, it's gaming. It's also supposed to be having fun with your friends. The day it stops being about that is the day you ought not to be gaming.

It's not that the substance of this is not true; it's just that it is sooo in your face that I wold really have to question the confrontational nature of the person writing it. That just isn't somebody I want to be spending time with.

My favorite gaming group ever told me this when I first got in the group. Instead of taking it personal, I took it that the DM cares enough about his group that he knows that group chemistry is very important. I played with the group for three months before I got my "break up "call from the dm. I was upset at first, but when I thought about it, if i had a group, I know I'd want them to have great team chemistry. Some players just don't mix with some groups and sadly some players don't realize that they aren't fitting.

A big problem with this world is that people don't express what they feel and think. If I married a woman I'd let her know that I have a problem with attitudes and I don't like certain things. IF people were as front in marriages and SERIOUS things as they are with rules for games and businesses, we'd have more honesty in this world and less bad marriages and friendships.

 

[FunkBGR]

I identify with this.

Why?

I have a group of friends I play with when I come home from college. We treat this game as seriously as we can - which isn't much. It's just a way for us to get back together and bond - especially after not seeing each other over the course of a couple months.

At school though, things change. I don't know the players here as well as I know the guys back home - so drafting rules is a good thing. As for Emirkol's being harsh? Hardly - that's exactly the kind of thing I wish I would've made when I first started. You can get some seriously messed up people, and I'd rather have people coming to a game expecting super-harsh-strictness, and seeing it's not that bad for example, than people coming and ruining my time and game because they can't act mature / behave / play the way we play.

I've had it happen. It sucks - and I had to bite the bullet and keep running games I hated if I wanted to play this game.

It boiled down in my situation to "play crappy game" or "not play at all". By the by, my school is about 2000 people, approximately 20 of which prolly play rpgs, and half of that is D&D. You can't pick and choose who plays and who doesn't easily in this situation.

So yeah - "Public" games I feel are good to have rules. "Private" games - do what works.

 

[farscapesg1]

Or, potentially, some people prefer to be given something bordering on the benefit of the doubt. This is not "rolling through a stop sign" vs. "perfect road procedure"; this is the cop walking up as you put the keys in the ignition, shining his flashlight in your eyes, and asking "You're gonna run a stop sign, aren't you? I know you're gonna run a stop sign because others have run stop signs. Convince me you're not gonna run a stop sign before I let you drive off."

See, I don't take that statement as saying they are going to do it.

9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. Anyone, including the DM, can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming.

I interpret this as the following;

Hi, thanks for the interest in the group. We would love to have you as a player, but if something comes up and the group just doesn't feel like you mesh well, don't feel bad if we ask you to step down. I sincerely hope that everything will work out, but you never know. I hope you will be a lasting addition to our fun.

No-where do I read the rule as;

Dude, I know you aren't going to work out, so I'm giving you fair warning that we will probably axe you from the group. No hard feelings, but we just don't get along with most people. Hope you enjoy wasting your time.

 

[painandgreed]

While most of the rules may be reasonable, should any prospective DM hand me this list, I'd have to thank him and back slowly towards the door. While ground rules are good and all, I'd be way suspicious of anybody who had so many hang ups and went through the trouble to codify them all. Anybody who has had enough trouble to need all those rules probably has enough issues to come into conflict with normal people and create new rules for his next group. Be mature, pick two or three that matter the most to you and then just work out the rest with the players as the game goes. It's a game and the DM isn't the only one whose enjoyment matters. If he hands me a list of rules and wants a questionaire filled out, then he better be willing to accept my list of demands and fill out my quesitonaire too, and that sort of set up rarely is going to result in a workable gaming group.

 

[freebfrost]

I'd take offense to calling it gradeschool. I love the wording. It is very professional. When you go to a job, theres an employee manual.

Yeah I know, d and d is not a job. Ok lets look at other recreational activities that have rules.

I don't mind abiding by the rules of my workplace. Of course, they reimburse me for my time.

It bears repeating, since you are trying to support this by saying it is like work, but deflecting the connection by stating "D&D is not a job." If you believe that, then why are you arguing at all that is it like work?

Work ≠ Gaming.

Ok, when you go to a park there are a list of rules. When you go to an arcade there are a list of rules when you go to a restaurant there are a list of rules (NO shoes , no shirt, no service).

And all are businesses run by the government or by private citizens.

Do you have a similar set of rules for when you (choose one) watch the game with your buds/play monopoly/go bowling/play a pickup game of basketball/etc.? (And I'm not talking about the rules of the game, but a set of rules on how to behave.)

Does the restaurant tell you not to talk too loudly, or to keep your elbows off of the table, or to not throw your cup across the room? Of course not - unless you need to be reminded on how to play nice, like a child or someone drunk and disorderly.

That is the level at which these rules operate. It is for misbehaving children, not adults.

 

[Steel_Wind]

If I married a woman I'd let her know that I have a problem with attitudes and I don't like certain things.

That, good sir, as any man can see,
provoked an attack of opportunity.
Being a gentleman, I shall leave it be,
It appears we have agreed to disagree.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Ground rules are fine. Some of your ground rules, I would not support.

1. Everybody fills out the potential player questionaire (email me if you want it) and nobody invites anyone else without the whole group's permission.

2. People are here to game. If you're not here to game, you're in the wrong place.

3. Nobody sits at the table until their character is finished and has been reviewed by the DM (that includes levelling). You and everyone else in the group have 332 hours to finish your characters before the next session. Is that enough time?

These seem fine to me. I especially like the second half of #1.

4. Players police their own. That means that the DM is not a baby sitter. The DM assigns 2 or more players to set the offending player straight or kick him out.

I like the idea that "players police their own," but I don't know what it really means in practice. What if half the players think the behavior is fine, and half don't?

5. Nobody questions the DM's rulings during the game unless it would mean instant death for someone's character otherwise and they've already looked up the rule and have their finger on the actual paragraph and are about to read it out loud. If it's abiguuous, the DM's ruling stands [period]. You are at the wrong place if you just want to whine about every little thing the DM does (http://www.mandrgames.com/WHINERDoll.htm).

I'd be fine with this rule, as long as the DM has taken and passed the RPGA's Master-Level GM Test. Otherwise, I reserve the right to correct him when he s up.

6. Players who create stupidly munchkin characters can expect a stupidly short life and not at the expense of the other PC's lives.

7. Time is of the essence so plan ahead (bring food and beer rather than stopping the game to order and receive). We don't stop the whole game for someone who needs to take a cell phone call or go have a smoke.

8. Want x.p.? Participate. All x.p. is given anonymously via email and will vary 10-50% from the next PC's.

9. Nobody is a 'permanent' member of the group. Anyone, including the DM, can be 'voted out' at any time. Nothing personal. It's just gaming.

10. Every couple months we'll talk about how to make the game better. Bring some positive feedback as well as some things you'd like improved.

11. Every player can expect to have their character die at some point. Try to be mature about it.

I like 6 and 7. 8 is probably okay, though I'd definitely quit if I thought the XP awards weren't fair. 9 goes without saying...and shouldn't be said. It's just too confrontational for a ground rule. 10 falls into the category of "things that should be done during the 332 other hours of the week," IMO. 11 should go without saying, but doesn't in so many campaigns that I think it's a good one to mention at the outset.

 

[DonTadow]

I don't mind abiding by the rules of my workplace. Of course, they reimburse me for my time.

It bears repeating, since you are trying to support this by saying it is like work, but deflecting the connection by stating "D&D is not a job." If you believe that, then why are you arguing at all that is it like work?

Work ≠ Gaming.


And all are businesses run by the government or by private citizens.

Do you have a similar set of rules for when you (choose one) watch the game with your buds/play monopoly/go bowling/play a pickup game of basketball/etc.? (And I'm not talking about the rules of the game, but a set of rules on how to behave.)

Does the restaurant tell you not to talk too loudly, or to keep your elbows off of the table, or to not throw your cup across the room? Of course not - unless you need to be reminded on how to play nice, like a child or someone drunk and disorderly.

That is the level at which these rules operate. It is for misbehaving children, not adults.

YOu're close to figuring out my point. My point is not dungeons and dragons is a job. Iit's that dungeons and dragons, like everything in life, has rules that have little to do with how the act is performed.

Some of what I described are non profit organizations and even in some cases private clubs. They all have rules. Again, my point is that everything has rules and those rules are to keep order.

When i have friends over to watch he game... yeah there are rules, they aren't to go into my room, they aren't to set drinks on the floor, they are to use the guess bathroom and there's a big sign on the game that says wash your hands before and after leaving the bathroom.

When i play monpooly (which i play professionally) at my house I have a list of house rules i have. i also go over the guest rules for my house.

If i'm hooping there are rules for new people. There's no going in my house without my permission, no parking in my driveway, no going into the guest bed rooms or mine.

As someone previously said its alwways best to be thorough with what you like and don't like than to not say anything and be super offended because someone didn't know .

If hyou're in a really nice resataurant (and i consider my game an upscale game, not your nomral pick up game) then walking in without a suit coat will get you thrown out, talking loudly will have a waiter come over to you and ask you to be quiet, if you have children and they are whining you can be asked to leave.

There's a misconeetpion that when you become an adult you automatically follow all of the rules and that is not true with any of us. II can't understand why so many of us is so senstive when someone isimply has rules for them to follow.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

YOu're close to figuring out my point.

I think most of us completely understand your point. We just don't agree with the conclusions you are attempting to draw from it. This is a crucial difference, the understanding of which will make or break an "argumentative" thread.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm just curious: are you serious, or if this a humorous post? At first I thought you were serious but some of these (such as "You can be voted out at any time" and "Fill out a questionnaire") seem so extreme that I'm thinking you're just kidding around.

At least I hope you are.

Well, it says humour at the top...