D&D General RA Salvatore Wants To Correct Drizzt’s Racist Tropes

In an interview with Polygon, the author talks about how the drow are currently being redefined in D&D, and how he wants to be part of that process. ”But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious. Drow are now split into (at...

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In an interview with Polygon, the author talks about how the drow are currently being redefined in D&D, and how he wants to be part of that process.
”But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.

Drow are now split into (at least) three types — the familiar Udadrow of Menzoberranzan, the arctic-themed Aevendrow, and the jungle-themed Lorendrow. Salvatore's new novel, Starlight Enclave, helps to expand the drows' role in the narrative.
In 2020 WotC made a public statement about how they would be treating drow and orcs going forward -- "Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. "

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Ehhhhhh...

"If you'd been a -white- man who grew up in the 60s it -might- not have been obvious to you" would be a better thing to write, there.

Black people have -long- known about the connection. And women have long known that Women in Power = Evil is really rough, too. And he's been confronted about it, many times, over the years. On and offline. This isn't new. This isn't "We realized this in 2020".

I'm also shocked by the number of people who are like "He's gonna change it to be less racist? I'm out!" that's... I mean go for it, friends, but that's tellin' all on yourselves.
He prolly didn't write it tho

It's an interview, which are typically recorded
People omit or make poor word choices when speaking and answering unrehearsed questions
We all say things that we'd love to edit. But most of us aren't being recorded when we do so
 

G

Guest 7025638

Guest
Well, luckily for you... you can continue to run drow exactly as you please, even if other books re-write things. No one can take that away from you. You'll just have to accept that how you run drow will be different than how they are portrayed going forward.
I don't run them any way. So how others run it for me may essentially depend on these new turns, which I don't agree with at all.
 

Good on him. In interviews, he comes across as a pretty decent guy. Glad to see he's on-board with the changes and is working to be a part of them.

I was all about his books back in the day, though I fell off as I got older. And I'll readily admit that I didn't get that the drow were problematic then (if you had asked me back then about the problems with drow, I would've said something about Drizzt clones vs. other players that will just immediately try to kill any drow PC just for who they are), so it doesn't surprise me that the author didn't get it either. That doesn't make either of us bad people, but whether we grow with time and the world around us, that does. And I like to think both of us have.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Oh, I have no doubt that dozens of articles have been published on this subject in many platforms since the drows were first described back in the 70's.
What I can't wrap my mind around is the notion that ACTUAL black people would be ACTUALLY offended by the skin color of a fantasy species in a fantasy game... Nobody would say in good faith that they actually think the Drow are some attempt to depict an ethnicity from the real world.
Yeah, because no one could possibly in good faith ever make a connection between the drow and black people...(but more importantly, the bigger issue that dark skinned races are almost universally portrayed as evil, which aligns with decades of racist tropes in real life)

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Anti-inclusive content
Yeah, because no one could possibly in good faith ever make a connection between the drow and black people...(but more importantly, the bigger issue that dark skinned races are almost universally portrayed as evil, which aligns with decades of racist tropes in real life)

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Drows are not even human to begin with. Just like another poster said here, it's all artificial trouble making as I see it.
 

lyle.spade

Adventurer
It amazes me that people get hung up about supposed stereotyping of made-up species and cultures. Take a step back and think on that: doesn't it seem absurd to lose any sleep at all over something that is completely fictional? Can people no longer tell the difference?

I avoided the Drow until Eberron made them interesting. They always seemed to me to be murderous Cure fans - goths before there were goths, of a sort, and dull because they were all defined by such an extreme set of beliefs. I knew, all along, that there is no such thing as Drow, however, or any of this stuff, so I just ignored them and had hordes of evil goblins creating problems (save for the few friendly/good ones that I threw in to surprise my players and keep them off balance). The fact that they have black skin seemed silly, but perhaps fitting, given humanity's shared and general fear of the dark (not "of the black" - "of the dark") and that such skin would help them blend into shadows, making them creepier, or more effective within combat and sighting rules in the game.

Eberron made them interesting by changing their default backdrop and adding cultural elements that made a lot more sense to me. But I still was okay with them being portrayed as "all" a certain way because...it's just a story, and as a story that I am free to remake or redefine as I please. Keith Baker has his own Ideas about Eberron; WOTC has theirs; and I have mine. My use of goblinoids changed a lot in response to Eberron's portrayal of them - Hobgoblins are far more interesting as fantasy Klingons than as murderous hordes whose only purpose is to be murderous hordes. But what's wrong with relying on the trope (tired, perhaps, but hardly damaging to society or the individual) of 'evil Drow' if it makes a story work and people around the table have a good time?

And again, it's all made up, and has zero bearing on the real world, unless, again, someone can't tell the difference between the two.

I am not saying any of this to kickstart anyone, and I thought about it before responding at all. It's just amazing and troubling to watch as people get worked up, angry, upset, and draw lines between who's right/wrong/good/bad over things that do....not...exist. If anything, the absurdity of an entire species being of one moral bent or another is a teaching tool to the young that no such thing exists, and that it is silly to think otherwise. To seek a world in which all our fiction (current and past) must be perfectly aligned with the most current of social/moral fads is...creepy, and totalitarian for the conformity it demands.

Where does creativity go when the self-appointed online rage mob acts as gatekeeper to what's allowed? For a community of people who are connected through what is at its foundation a creative exercise, this should be troubling, and yet so many in this community are the ones pushing this new orthodoxy.

And yes, I did read the full article/interview. Maybe Salvatore is being honest, maybe it's shameless and proactive virtue-signaling; we don't know for sure - only he does. Beyond that, it has no bearing on what I decide to think of his fiction (which, in fact, I don't care for - I find his writing predictable and most of his characters pretty shallow).

It bears repeating for the sake of emphasis: this crap is all made up. WOTC doesn't exist to make games to make you feel good about your views about the real world and how it ought to be, per your views. WOTC wants you to buy their books, and their overpriced dice, minis, and all the adventure-specific DM screens they produce, and other junk that eventually will end up in boxes in garages, attics, or second-hand stores and, ultimately, landfills. Not any bit of it will impact the real world beyond the fact that you're spending money, they're making money, and you have heaps of things that one day you'll have no use for. If that all leads to greater happiness and creativity for you, wonderful. If, on the other hand, it leads to anger and a sense of injustice and a need to 'fix' our stories and make sure that people sign on the line to verify that they are good/right....I think you've forgotten the difference between reality and fiction.

I hope that you take some time to think about gaming as a means of having fun with some other people, first and foremost. Keep that as the animating force, and know that you can leave the real world out of your fantasy world, and vice versa. It's actually quite fun.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
Oh, I have no doubt that dozens of articles have been published on this subject in many platforms since the drows were first described back in the 70's.
What I can't wrap my mind around is the notion that ACTUAL black people would be ACTUALLY offended by the skin color of a fantasy species in a fantasy game... Nobody would say in good faith that they actually think the Drow are some attempt to depict an ethnicity from the real world.
It's not "Drow are clearly African Americans and you're villifying us!" Nefermandias. It's "Making Dark-Skinned characters almost invariably evil propagates terrible myths and stereotypes about Light/White being good and Dark/Black being evil, which have real world impacts that are largely Racist."
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Drows are not even human to begin with. Just like another poster said here, it's all artificial trouble making as I see it.
Whether they are human or not is missing the point. The point is that "in this game, everyone that looks like ethnic group X is inherently evil." Doesn't matter if drow or orcs aren't real, it's the depictions of how certain groups of people are represented and depicted, and tying that in with generations of real world depictions and tropes that reinforce the same stereotypes.

This also is not about you, or me, or any other individual. Lots of people have issues with it, and to characterize them as making artificial trouble is both inaccurate, and dismissive. You don't know anything about these people, so for you to assume bad faith from them just because you personally won't see a problem is a problem in itself.
 

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