races of destiny --has D&D 3.5 jumped the shark?

[Darkness]

Absolutely, Psion. As I said earlier, it's a very useful book despite having some crappy monsters.

I still remember how I first browsed through mine... Pretty illustrations, not to mention lots of crunchy monster stats.

 

[Gez]

So 3... that's not really a lot.

Five, even without counting the 4+ flavors of Giths and the Mojh. You're forgetting elans and shades.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Both the races and the environment series should have been done with a lot (A LOT) less crunch (because most of that looks like they just needed to fill the space, some unoriginal, some utterly silly, or worse - ok, some of it is good, too, but that's a very small part ), that would have been much, much better, I think.

It's cool to have official D&D books, which tell you more about the races, how they live, what they like and what not, what makes them special... but there seems to be some driving need to emphasize on this "special" part magnifying it to ridiculous levels and make a few dozen stupid feats to underline that.

They really need to come down from that trip...

Bye
Thanee

But to a certain point, that's the case with the Races of Book no? I mean there are only like seven PrCs and there are like 30 pages devoted to them. Information on background, organization, using the material in the campaign... What type of details are you looking for?

 

[Thanee]

I just think they always try to make more new, special stuff (which often seems unimaginative, basically the reason for this thread), instead of giving more emphasis on what is already there and going more into detail with existing stuff, where it might be needed.

OTOH I think they are trying to do more detailed and less numerous stuff now (with RoD), like what you said, the details with the PrC... that's cool.

Bye
Thanee

 

[JoeGKushner]

I just think they always try to make more new, special stuff (which often seems unimaginative, basically the reason for this thread), instead of giving more emphasis on what is already there and going more into detail with existing stuff, where it might be needed.

OTOH I think they are trying to do more detailed and less numerous stuff now (with RoD), like what you said, the details with the PrC... that's cool.

Bye
Thanee

I like the idea of expanding existing resources but would it sell? People cry up a storm if a product references third party material like the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

The Player's Guide to Faerun got all sorts of flak for including notes on Vile Darkness, Psionics, Exalted, etc...

To me, that works. To most others, it doesn't. People don't want pages of how to roleplay a dwarfven defender. They don't want ancient traditions of the dwarfs and their clans.

They want PrCs, feats, spells, magic items, racial paragons, racial substition levels and other crunch to customize their characters.

Or at least that's what's selling now.

 

[francisca]

I just think they always try to make more new, special stuff (which often seems unimaginative, basically the reason for this thread), instead of giving more emphasis on what is already there and going more into detail with existing stuff, where it might be needed.

OTOH I think they are trying to do more detailed and less numerous stuff now (with RoD), like what you said, the details with the PrC... that's cool.

Bye
Thanee

I'll chime in on this from 2 points of view.

#1: What do you think will sell better? Shiny new stuff, or slightly tweaked rehashes of the SRD?

#2: As a DM, I am really quite capable of incrementally expanding the core races in ways I want. I don't think I'm alone. To get me to even consider a new race in my game, it's going to have be really unique and open up new avenues for my players to explore.

Having said that, I realy don't want new shiny stuff when it comes to races, so I'm not purchasing the :"Races of" books. I also would not buy them if they were just minor tweaks of the core races. I might be interested in a book with a bunch of templates to tweak the core, but in pdf format, not a hardback.

But note that I'm not finding anything wrong with the "Races of" books, I'm just not in that market. I do, however, feel that there is a market for it, outside of the narrow focus of my game.

 

[Gez]

The Player's Guide to Faerun got all sorts of flak for including notes on Vile Darkness, Psionics, Exalted, etc...

... And all sorts of kudos as well.

 

[Zweischneid]

The Player's Guide to Faerun got all sorts of flak for including notes on Vile Darkness, Psionics, Exalted, etc...

To me, that works. To most others, it doesn't. People don't want pages of how to roleplay a dwarfven defender. They don't want ancient traditions of the dwarfs and their clans.

They want PrCs, feats, spells, magic items, racial paragons, racial substition levels and other crunch to customize their characters.

Or at least that's what's selling now.

Well, thats the problem with the toolkit apprach. If you introduce it as options, than some people will use the options and some wont.

If you want to really anchor something in a product line (like the FR Realms) you should also go the extra mile to introduce the fluff/metaplot/story/etc.. to integrate it in the setting.

Thats where the Player's Guide just failed. Like Gun Weapons earlier, Psionics, Exalted, Vile, etc.. are still not so central a theme in the realms that it would warrant covering it in sourcebook IMO.

 

[3catcircus]

Both the races and the environment series should have been done with a lot (A LOT) less crunch (because most of that looks like they just needed to fill the space, some unoriginal, some utterly silly, or worse - ok, some of it is good, too, but that's a very small part ), that would have been much, much better, I think.

It's cool to have official D&D books, which tell you more about the races, how they live, what they like and what not, what makes them special... but there seems to be some driving need to emphasize on this "special" part magnifying it to ridiculous levels and make a few dozen stupid feats to underline that.

They really need to come down from that trip...

Bye
Thanee

Considering the wealth of d20 books focusing on specific monsters/races ("Slayer's guide to...", "Quntissential...", etc.) I don't see the need for *any* of the "Races of..." books.

As far as environmental books - I would argue that the old 1st edition Wilderness Survival Guide, Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, in combination with the 1st edition DMG do a much better job than 3.x books of providing a nice balance of crunch and fluff for roleplaying encounters or scenarios where the environment plays a big part.

 

[Turjan]

I just think they always try to make more new, special stuff (which often seems unimaginative, basically the reason for this thread), instead of giving more emphasis on what is already there and going more into detail with existing stuff, where it might be needed.

Well, in this case, the easiest solution is just not to buy these books. This is not meant as a snarky comment, but as a realistic view of the topic at hand. These threads that come up every other day during the last time are a sign that quite a few people on this board feel some kind of saturation with PrC's and feats. Instead of lamenting about the books, it would be better just to give up on the notion that you have to buy each and every book that comes out, if you feel that it does not add anything to your game. I, for instance, did not buy any of those "Races of ..." books; why buy "Races of Stone" if I have "Hammer and Helm"? I don't need each and every Dwarven PrC under the sun.

If you want fluff books, you can also look elsewhere and adapt the stuff as appropriate (which is not difficult with fluff). Just as an example, there are some nice books out for Glorantha, originally for RuneQuest/Hero Wars/Heroquest, like "Storm Tribe - The Cults of Sartar". And no, these don't sell .