races of destiny --has D&D 3.5 jumped the shark?

[Turjan]

I prefer names ending in -os to names ending in -us, for obvious reasons quite often.

Because you prefer Greek over Roman ?

I'm fine with a name like "Urbanus". The name pattern is obviously derived from those for Roman gods. Originally, Roman gods were bodyless spirits of the "domain" they represented, like Silvanus, who was the spirit of the woods. This concept is not silly at all. It just sounded a bit silly later on, when the Greek myths and their anthropomorphic traits were adapted to Roman gods.

 

[Faraer]

No doubt that new rules toys are a big draw in RPG supplements for many. But no one knows the extent of that. The WotC marketing department seems to have believed dogmatically at one point that rules=sales, and now have a more nuanced view.

The multiple D&D race books vs Races of Faerûn is an example of artistic and commercial requirements in conflict: it's the detailed Forgotten Realms setting where multiple books on the races are needed/wanted/justified, but more money's (apparently) to be made by giving them to D&D despite the approach of not defining the core-D&D world too much. Thus their content is inevitably flotsam, bits and scraps that will be discarded when the next edition rolls around.

I also note that Races of Destiny is one tasteless title: need Lebensraum, do they?

 

[Chant in the Box]

Urbanus? It's not that the name is bad. The problem is the lack of imagination in the name. They could have come up with a name that is more evocative to urban life. Or maybe we should do a contest to find a better name just to see if we can do better.

 

[Psion]

Hmmm.. Arms and Equipment Guide?

MMIII?

 

[JoeGKushner]

I also note that Races of Destiny is one tasteless title: need Lebensraum, do they?

Why go with Lebensraum when we have Manifest Destiny working eh?

 

[Kapture]

Instead of Races of Stone, I'd prefer something like "Dwarves of Faerun" that would describe in excruciating detail all of the historical timelines of the Dwarven clans of Faerun, their kings and lineages, and all of the current and extinct clans - including notable things about each (i.e. information like "The Forgehammer clan has always been known for their ability to work sapphires. In 987 DR, Grunk Forgehammer created the clan's best-known work - The Blazing Sapphire, a gemstone that was imbued with the ability to...")

...

Frankly, we don't need a "Races of..." book because the information contained in the PHB is more than adequate for a DM to come up with information for his homebrew world. If desired, you could always go get a copy of "The Complete Book of [insert races here]." We *do* need a campaign-specific book because none of the prior D&D products has covered campaign-world specific detailed information on the various races.

See, this I really don't understand.

Why not just make it up?

The standard answer, I think, is "I don't have enough time." Which means, essentially that you are expecting a commercial entity to conform to your personal economics. Your needs. That isn't very realistic.

Plus, you only need enough to run your current few encounters with dwarves. You don't need the Dwarves of Thay if you're just running a Waterdeep Clan. You might be interested, but you don't need it.

There's tons of source material that WOTC doesn't have to be responsible for. You've probably read and seen enough on Dwarves that you could play them in your sleep, unless you're brand new to the genre. Dwarves are everywhere: Tolkein, Pratchett, Rosenbergh. Umpty other companies have done Dwarf stuff. Hell, you yourself just made up a cool plot thread right above. Grunk rocks.

The secondary answer is exactitude: some odd need to get the Dwarves of Faerun just right. But that is almost contrary to the needs of roleplaying: spontaneous story telling almost relies on customized information. I'd bet that's a reason crunch sells well enough to justify wizards spending most of it's time on crunch supplements: More people can make up relevant history and rules. I'd go so far as to say exactitude is unimportant to quite a few gamers because they can make up their own stuff so easilly.

 

[Voodoo]

How many "transformed humans" races do we need? What about transformed dwarves for a change? Is that a sort of ploy to make countless human subraces?

To be fair in a book mainly about humans and their ilk you wouldn't expect to find transformed dwarves. And a what point does a race stop being considred a a transformed race, a subrace or a seperate race? Depending on your setting, arn't Drow just transformed evles? Once you look at it like that then Between the MM, Races of Faerun, Races of Stone, and so on, there are tons of demihuman variants.

As for the race never being heard of before, what is the problem? If the race had been introduced on Races of Faerun then fair enough, but this is a generic book, presenting 'options'. I feel that if you don't like it then either change it or don't use it.

 

[Staffan]

Thank you Necromancer Games for Tome of Horrors for covering some of the game's extensive losses in this department.

Yeah, it's a good thing we have stats for the archer bush, the flail snail, and the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing again.

I don't think I've ever been as disappointed in a book as Tome of Horrors. I was hoping for 3e-ification of the wealth of cool monsters from Dark Sun, Mystara, Spelljammer, and so on. Instead I got a book full of Fiend Folio rejects. Good thing I didn't have to pay for it (I won it as a prize in a chat with the Necro folks).

 

[Desdichado]

I don't think I've ever been as disappointed in a book as Tome of Horrors. I was hoping for 3e-ification of the wealth of cool monsters from Dark Sun, Mystara, Spelljammer, and so on. Instead I got a book full of Fiend Folio rejects. Good thing I didn't have to pay for it (I won it as a prize in a chat with the Necro folks).

I was starting to think I was the only one around here who felt that way! Alright, Staffan -- now you're on my list of posters to watch.

 

[3catcircus]

See, this I really don't understand.

Why not just make it up?

The standard answer, I think, is "I don't have enough time." Which means, essentially that you are expecting a commercial entity to conform to your personal economics. Your needs. That isn't very realistic.

Paying someone to provide something isn't realistic? It is called exchange of a payment for goods and services and is completely realistic. I don't have time or equipment to dryclean my own suits, so I pay someone else to dryclean them for me - and if they haven't been cleaned to my liking I either don't pay or have them reclean them. Is paying someone to dryclean my clothes to my satisfaction also completely unrealistic?

Plus, you only need enough to run your current few encounters with dwarves. You don't need the Dwarves of Thay if you're just running a Waterdeep Clan. You might be interested, but you don't need it.

I don't know how much the encounters of the campaign you run (or play in) are connected, but the scenarios and encounters I provide for my players aren't done in a vacuum - maybe that encounter with the dwarf merchant in Waterdeep where you wanted to purchase a special spell component leads him to have you find his kidnapped and enslaved cousin, who was shipped to Thay. You go to Thay and discover that the cousin was escaped and hiding out somewhere. Where do you go? Let's start by figuring out where Dwarves of Thay happen to live since it is likely he would attempt to hide amongst them. Gee - do I know what the clans of Thayan dwarves are and where they live? No, not unless it is published and purchasable or I make it up - something I don't have time to do and ensure continuity with all of the existing published information and my own home-brew additions or changes...

I *want* the information because it allows me to simply pick a spot in the background information to attach the plot hooks rather than spend time coming up with the background that will support the plot hooks.

There's tons of source material that WOTC doesn't have to be responsible for. You've probably read and seen enough on Dwarves that you could play them in your sleep, unless you're brand new to the genre. Dwarves are everywhere: Tolkein, Pratchett, Rosenbergh. Umpty other companies have done Dwarf stuff. Hell, you yourself just made up a cool plot thread right above. Grunk rocks.

The secondary answer is exactitude: some odd need to get the Dwarves of Faerun just right. But that is almost contrary to the needs of roleplaying: spontaneous story telling almost relies on customized information. I'd bet that's a reason crunch sells well enough to justify wizards spending most of it's time on crunch supplements: More people can make up relevant history and rules. I'd go so far as to say exactitude is unimportant to quite a few gamers because they can make up their own stuff so easilly.

Bottom line - I'm using a published campaign world and consider that the more detailed information I have available to draw from, the less work (that I don't have time to do myself) is needed. Especially since I like to make sure that my campaign world is self-causal and maintains continuity.