races of destiny --has D&D 3.5 jumped the shark?

[thud13x]

People don't want pages of how to roleplay a dwarfven defender. They don't want ancient traditions of the dwarfs and their clans.

They want PrCs, feats, spells, magic items, racial paragons, racial substition levels and other crunch to customize their characters.

Or at least that's what's selling now.

But what about those who want a bit of both. I like having the fluff and using to create character ideas. It is what makes the whole idea of a new character fun.

The crunchy parts are good too because it allows you to come up with background info that would have in-game effects.

It seems to me that WOTC tries to strike a balance with most of their books, and usually, fails in the minds of some by either being too Fluffy or too Crunchy. I like RoS since it was a good attempt at balance in both categories. I have yet to see RoD so I cannot say with certainty what it seems to me.

 

[Faraer]

Why not just make it up?

Why not create your own campaign world? Make your own movies? Your own gardening equipment? Because you don't have time, and because a professional author can probably do it better than you, judged externally, certainly judged in the setting's own terms.

Your needs. That isn't very realistic.

Needs that many people share.

You might be interested, but you don't need it.

As well as 3catcircus's rebuttal of this, the 3E philosophy of immediate 'use' and 'need' is just one approach to secondary worlds in relation to roleplaying games. Part of what TSR bought the Realms for originally was the sense that you could turn any corner, look in any direction, and see more of the world. It was designed and presented with a conceit of 'as if real', developed for its own sake, which in turn made it a more complete and credible world for roleplaying.

You've probably read and seen enough on Dwarves that you could play them in your sleep, unless you're brand new to the genre. Dwarves are everywhere: Tolkein, Pratchett, Rosenbergh.

None of them are Faerûnian dwarves.

The secondary answer is exactitude: some odd need to get the Dwarves of Faerun just right. But that is almost contrary to the needs of roleplaying: spontaneous story telling almost relies on customized information.

Again, you're confusing one particular approach to roleplaying with roleplaying in general. Gygax's World of Greyhawk used your minimalist, as-needed approach; Ed Greenwood's Realms enjoys making available as much information as possible, to be used or ignored as the DM sees fit, because you never know when you'll need details about something, and few DMs can make up such detail as richly and believably as the creators of the setting.

 

[Caspiar]

The Books are modular.....and most importantly OPTIONAL.....

If the Illumins are "dumb" do not use them......

I believe most campaigns end up being made of several parts of several books by several people working for several companies....

your game will not "jump the shark" unless you let it...

I, for one, am enjoying the goldmine of ideas Wizards and others (Bastion and Green Ronin in particular) are offering....

take what you want leave the rest......remember with 2nd edition, all we had were kit books and players options......and first edition we just had Judges Guild and Role Aids..

on the contrary......this is a renaissance buffet.....take you want leave the rest...... and SCREW THE SHARK

 

[Khayman]

Silly though they may be, I can use the Illumians in my Planescape campaign. The plotline just took a surreal turn and Sigil now has a human/dabus hybrid. More proof that WotC has a listening device in my basement.

Mind you, if an illumian ever gets hold of an ioun stone, it may be nausea-inducing... as well as killing the visual effects budget for our game...

 

[Andre]

MMIII?

Well, that gets us up to two. I'll take a guess and suggest that MM2, Fiend Folio, and the other (3.0?3.5) Arms and Equipment Guide also didn't have prestige classes (I don't have these books so I don't know for sure).

Any others? Out of all the WOTC supplements, are there only five without an obligatory prestige class?

(Don't mean to beat a dead horse about this, but it sure feels like WOTC puts a lot of stuff in their supplements as filler, or because they decided it's obligatory, not because it's really needed.)

 

[Klaus]

Is it just because Urban means city?

Slight nitpick: Urban = from a city; Urbi = City.

Every year the Pope issues a bill called Urbi et Orbi, i.e. The City and The World.

 

[Knight Otu]

Slight nitpick: Urban = from a city; Urbi = City.

Yah, I know. That was a bit of a brain freeze on my part.

Chant in the Box, interesting idea on the contest - if you want to start a different thread for it?

 

[Voodoo]

Well, that gets us up to two. I'll take a guess and suggest that MM2, Fiend Folio, and the other (3.0?3.5) Arms and Equipment Guide also didn't have prestige classes (I don't have these books so I don't know for sure).

Any others? Out of all the WOTC supplements, are there only five without an obligatory prestige class?

(Don't mean to beat a dead horse about this, but it sure feels like WOTC puts a lot of stuff in their supplements as filler, or because they decided it's obligatory, not because it's really needed.)

I have to feel that Prestigue Classes and crunch sell. If we look at the books lacking in PrC's*, (Arms and Equip Guide, Book of Challenges, Hero Builders guidebook, Enemies and Allies, Stronghold Builders Guidebook [i think]) they are all quite old and 3rd edition books.

WoTC make the products we will buy, and stop making products that we just don't. And we buy what we want, ie crunch as well as fluff. Frostburn could have been made as a 100 page softback with nothing in the way of player options in it, but would people have bought it? Past experience tells WoTC the answer is no.

*ignoring various monster manuals, PHB and Map Folios and adventures, though both the Fiend Foli and Monsters of Faerun have PrC's in them.

 

[smetzger]

Well, that gets us up to two. I'll take a guess and suggest that MM2, Fiend Folio, and the other (3.0?3.5) Arms and Equipment Guide also didn't have prestige classes (I don't have these books so I don't know for sure).

Any others? Out of all the WOTC supplements, are there only five without an obligatory prestige class?

Hero Builders Guide

 

[Psion]

Well, that gets us up to two. I'll take a guess and suggest that MM2, Fiend Folio, and the other (3.0?3.5) Arms and Equipment Guide also didn't have prestige classes (I don't have these books so I don't know for sure).

Fiend Folio had prestige classes (cool, effective, campaign enhancing prestige classes I wouldn't hesitate to use for a second, I might add. I thought it was very clever to parse out the Vile Darkness possession mechanic into a prestige class.)