Races of Faerun +level inconsistencies and potential errata?!

[Falconer]

Okay, I've gone through the book here and most of it is pretty good. However this one struck me as completely wrong.

Avariel have a +3 level adjustment. Has anyone at wizards stated why it's so high?! Merely because they have wings? They have some nice stat adjusts and wings otherwise they're mostly identical to other elves.

Compared to the lesser Fey-ri at +2 level adjustment and the same flight ability as well as innate magic and a bunch of other bene's this seems pretty inconsistent. Especially w/ that permanent alter self at will which helps a lot from a RP perspective. (drow PC's should be envious).

Yet a +1 Aasimar w/ wings is different how? (I'm guessing that they no longer have the percentile as in the DMG, but don't get them by default). That the feat expenditure makes it somehow far less powerfull. However the lack of any 'essnetial statistics' info on the planetouched in Races of Faerun is EXTREMELY annoying.

Anyone else seen anything which looks out of whack character or powerwise in the book?

 

[jasamcarl]

Uh, check again. The flight ability of the ave is hardly the same as the fey'ri. let alone the ais with the flight feet. Get your facts straight....

 

[Wormwood]

The Avariel has *very* unbalanced stats (a net of +4), good flight speed with average maneuverability (which we've playtested to be extremely effective in combat---beware the Avariel Death Dive).

On the other hand, the Fey'ri's stats are more balanced and it's flight speed and maneuverability are lower than the Avariels. Poor maneuverability sucks. It does get dark and low-light vision, good defensive abilities and skill bonuses though.

I'd put the Fey'ri on the extreme high-end of +2, and the Avariel on the low end of +3.

 

[EricNoah]

I agree that the fey'ri and the avariel look pretty close in level adjustment. That 50 fly speed and the extra stat points does make the avariel pretty attractive.

Fortunately the level adjustment stuff is pretty subjective and not really "wired" deeply into the rules, so it's easy enough to change a race's level adjustment here and there if you don't find it right for you.

 

[Cernunnos]

I find those flight abilities are generally pretty useless underground and in small spaces. Weren't most avariel claustrophobic in 2E?
And if you've got a PC whose fey'ri or avariel thinks they are hot in the air, throw them up against one of the larger flying monsters, and have them fight up in the air, well out of range from the ground party's arrows and spells. Sonic attacks work well too... Being airborne and having wings adds enough roleplaying problems as well that the ECL's probably aren't horribly off. What they gain in stats they lose in close manueverability, and having every country bumpkin ask far too many questions.

 

[Falconer]

Thanks for the feedback...

A few points:
To Wormwood: One to the person who claimed net +4 was really unbalanced. guess what so do the Aasimar, net +4 stat adjusts... elemental damage reductions and a few other goodies. Yet the Aasimar is only a +1 level.

To Jasamcarl:
my point of view included that bit. I didn't voice it though. They can fly which is what I typically find the gamebreaker. The catch is they can fly and also have a lot of other niceties such as elemental resistances, innate spells, etc. While the averiel have little more exceptional than flight ability over the stock elf.

It's been my experience in most cases just the ability to fly is the potential game-breaker. The maneuverability class is secondary in those cases. As pure aerial combat isn't that common. I didn't realize that 50'/average maneuverability was so powerfull to merit the +3 (or +2 of the +3 I guess more likely).

And Cemunnos: your comment about the wings and RP and such. That's why I mentioned the full-time alter self the Fey'ri get. It allows them to mask their form w/ ease especially at low levels. At higher levels some diviniations might give things away. But the point still stands. Drow should be envious of that one (as another +2 critter I'd think drow/Fey'ri should be pretty comparable and they seem to be). With the only real gamebreaker of the averiel being mundane flight I didn't see the +3 as being comparable.

Thanks for the replies that's why I asked. I'm just asking for a little more clarification on why the higher maneuverability flight is so overpowering? Especially when the wings and such are IMO a drawback indoors/underground. As well as a RP problem when trying to keep a low profile.

 

[Technik4]

Comparison

Ok, lets compare all the RoF races with flight potential to each other.

Aarakocra (ECL +2, Fav Class: Fighter)
90 ft fly, average maneuver. 20 ft land speed. Stats are +2 net.
Claustrophobic and sheer oddity make it a difficult choice.

Aasimar (ECL +1, Fav Class: Paladin)
Prereqs: Must spend 2 feats (Celestial Bloodline, Outsider Wings), must be ~3-5th level (with heavy multiclassing)
30 ft land speed, 30 ft fly speed, average maneuver. Stats are +4 net. As an aasimar, you have access to other nifty feats, and get along pretty well with most races. Native Outsider.

Avariel (ECL +3, Fav Class: Cleric)
50 ft fly, average maneuver. 30 ft land speed. Stats are +4 net.
Wingspan can sometimes be a problem, RP opportunities abound as you are one of the last remaining of one of the first races on faerun. Your race knows the secret to making glassteel and has a kick-ass dive attack.

Fey'ri (ECL +2 or +3, Fav Class: Sorceror)
40 ft fly, poor maneuver. 30 ft land speed. Stats are +2 net.
Alter Self at will is powerful, and there are a small selection of other abilities a Fey'ri can pick. You are almost universally reviled by anyone that can recognize you. You have some nifty feats, but the best one require that you have picked abilities which require +3 ECL. Native Outsider.

Tiefling (ECL +1, Fav Class: Rogue)
Prereqs: Must spend 2 feats (Infernal Bloodline, Outsider Wings), must be ~3-5th level.
30 ft land speed, 30 ft fly speed, average maneuver. Stats are +2 net. As a tiefling, you have acces to other nifty feats and you can make packs with demons, fey'ri, tanarukks, etc more easily because of your infernal blood. Native Outsider.


I'd say everything balances out, more or less. Tactical Aerial Combat notwithstanding, none of these creatures can hover, and they all have a minimum speed they must move forward each round. To get to "good" maneuverability, any race (except fey'ri) can spend one feat on "Improved Flight" to gain the ability to hover in place, fly backwards, and negate other penalties which require Tactical Aerial Combat.

For comparison's sake, average maneuverability is equivelent to a Gargoyle, poor is equal to a Wyvern. Aarokocras and Avariels have the fewest feat expenditure in order to achieve "good" maneuverability, and are therefore the best fliers. Both are also not outsiders (Aarakocras are Monstrous Humanoids, Avariel are elves) which has its good points and its bad.

If youre looking just at stats, Avariel seem weak for a +3, if you are playing in the realms, I think they come out on the strong side of 3, mostly from RP opportunities.

Fey'ri, while interesting, present the worst flying option. They are even weaker if playing in the realms, where the fact that they are part of a clan of elves that mated with demons for power and supremacy means they are almost as reviled as the drow. Although, as you pointed out, Alter Self negates this to an extent, Alter self also precludes flying as it states they only get it in "their winged form".

Its interesting to speculate whether "their winged form" means their true form, or whether using alter self to make you look like an avariel, aarokocra, aasimar with wings, or tiefling with wings couts as "their winged form". I would say "no way".

Technik

 

[Falconer]

Technik:

I think that last point answered my question. RP oppurtunities in the realms. I come from more of a neutral wargaming background than RPG. (I think 3e tries to hard to dress up as a wargame, when more latitude should be granted to the GM). I also think 3e fails horribly at it as there are far too many power combos which are hard for a DM to nerf.

But you're right in the realms that +3 is probably warranted.

I'm still amazed at that alter self at will though... I reread the spell... it's probably one of the better 2nd level spells IMO now! If the form has gills you can breath underwater, wings you can fly 30' poor... It effecitvely gives the fey'ri a permanent weak polymorph self. But quite a usefull one. One of those great non-combat swiss-army-knife spells I like so much.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I also think 3e fails horribly at it as there are far too many power combos which are hard for a DM to nerf.

You get that wrong: the DM isn't supposed to nerf the player's powers. What good are nice abilities to you if you can't use them?

 

[Technik4]

Theres a difference between "nerfing" your powers and playing up the racial bigotry of the people whose world you are traveling. If you play a drow, with an ECL +2, you are a balanced character, 3e made sure of that. If you are a drow, you are going to be persecuted, hunted, hated, etc by the majority of humans or elves (or even dwarves) that you meet.

If you don't like being hated, dont play an evil race, but don't interpret your dm's playing of peoples' reactions to you as "nerfing" you. Fey'ri and Drow represent the classic anti-hero, or possibly a redemption type character. Races are more than the stats that they are made up of.

Technik