Races With Wisdom Bonus And No LA - Possible?

[Nazhkandrias]

All rules are optional.

Well, technically, yes, but the notion of that keeps me up at night.

DM: Guess what, everybody! Death is houseruled away!
PCs: Yaaay!
DM: ...For monsters too!
PCs: Eeerrrmm!!!
DM: And, instead of rolling dice, we'll determine skill checks and attack rolls through... INTERPRETIVE DANCE!!!

...

Just poking a little fun, that's all.

 

[Darklone]

That's an interesting case, because it may seem like he's boosting himself, but what he's really doing is nerfing his main strength in trade for getting a stronger defense. (Any time that a primary caster voluntarily reduces his caster level, he's done something sub-optimal. That's not to say it's wrong, just that we should compare strength against strength.)

If he were really interested in abusing that +2 Wisdom, what he'd do is Wild Shape into a tiny bird and cast offensive spells (which allow a saving throw).

Nowadays your avatar reminds me of the Anita Blake vampire killer series.... stuffed penguins

The halfling in question was 2 levels behind most of the rest of the group anyhow... since he was a replacement char. Still, as soon as he got Wildshape (Large) and the non-errataed Animal Growth, he rocked the dancefloor... battlefield, I mean. Partially because his worst rolled attribute was a 14... IIRC that's about a CR+2 for good stats, so he was on par with the rest of the group.

Besides, after 8 melee druids in my groups: I am not so sure that one level monk hurts a melee wildshaper. Rather the contrary, IMX it gives them a horribly strong boost for the minor drawback to be on par with a sorcerer for highest spell levels known. Not that they cast too much anyhow.

That char was in action till level 14... so I can imagine at higher levels he'll be a bit worse. For low levels though? Large and huge animals with AC 30+ and the usual animal attack routines. Not good for the BBEGs pet dragon.

DM: And, instead of rolling dice, we'll determine skill checks and attack rolls through... INTERPRETIVE DANCE!!!

I gotta game again with these girls ...

 

[Nifft]

Nowadays your avatar reminds me of the Anita Blake vampire killer series.... stuffed penguins

Erp!

Besides, after 8 melee druids in my groups: I am not so sure that one level monk hurts a melee wildshaper.

I don't disagree. It's just that at a certain point, melee becomes your last resort rather than your first choice.

It's just so much less messy throw down a wall of thorns and a Quickened entangle, while your Wizard buddy throws down a dimension lock and then an acid fog, and the two of you toss in Sonic substituted firestorms and fireballs. Less wear & tear on the fur coat.

Cheers, -- N

 

[werk]

... Sonic substituted firestorms and fireballs.

Sonic was removed from the list of subable energies a long time ago...probably for this reason or other situations similar.

 

[Wolfwood2]

This is in the Rules forum and not the House Rules forum, so it should be said that there's nothing in the game rules prohibiting a +0 LA race with a wisdom bonus. Guidelines in the DMG and elsewhere advise that this is the sort of thing that needs careful thinking, but race design is a DM call.

Myself, I don't think it's that big of a deal. +1 to spell DCs and an extra bonus spell is nice, but it's not so nice as to completely outcompete other races.

 

[werk]

Myself, I don't think it's that big of a deal. +1 to spell DCs and an extra bonus spell is nice, but it's not so nice as to completely outcompete other races.

I tend to agree, but I also think there are some other considerations that should be taken into account.

If you are playing with rolled stats, as opposed to point buy, that +2 is already well within your deviation...allow it and don't think twice. If you are playing low-point-buy, a +2 to a prime stat can be a much bigger deal.

I'd allow it, personally, as I already allow Cha elves and Int elves...but I'd probably require that the Wis race be an elf too...as a deterrent.

 

[Mistwell]

So we have official sources that offer a +2 Wis and a +0 LA. These include:

Lesser Asimar (Page 191 of Player's Guide to Faerun, also found in FRCS);
The Vanara (Oriental Adventures, 2 int and wis, -2 str);
Buomman have LA +0, +2 Wis, -2 Cha (Planar Handbook).

We also have core sources that allow +2 to a spellcasting stat at +0 LA, such as the Grey Elves. And of course plenty of examples of +2 charisma at +0 LA.

I think that's plenty precedent to say WOTC does not consider it unbalanced to have a +2 to a spellcasting stat at a +0 LA, including Wisdom.