Racial ability mods "Fix", Adding player choice

[pukunui]

I really like this idea. It loosens up the straight jacket quite a bit ...

Just a quick question: what if each race got to choose from four options instead of only three (like your revised half-elf does)? Would that be too much?

Anyway, here's my take (the parenthetical stat is the "what if" fourth option):

Dragonborn: Str/Con/Wis (Cha)*
Dwarf: Str/Con/Wis (Int)
Eladrin: Dex/Int/Wis (Cha)
Elf: Str/Dex/Wis (Con)
Half Elf: Cha plus one other
Halfling: Dex/Int/Cha (Wis)
Tiefling: Con/Int/Cha (Str)
Warforged: Str/Con/Int (Wis)

*I don't understand why dragonborn have a Cha bonus in the first place and if I stick with static bonuses, I'm going to make theirs +2 Str/+2 Wis. If I go with this "pick your own" route, then I could theoretically add Cha back in in case anyone really wants it.

Also, if I use this variant rule, possibly the only change I'll make to humans is to let them choose their bonus at-will from any class.

Thoughts?



p.s. On a side note: would giving elves a +1 to Reflex Defense instead of the group perception bonus be overpowering compared to the +1 to Will Defense that eladrin get?

 

[Jack Colby]

Just a quick question: what if each race got to choose from four options instead of only three (like your revised half-elf does)? Would that be too much?

Why not let each race pick from all six and be done with it? Or just let them choose what scores they want, period?

 

[osmanb]

... Haha, yeah. The first version of this idea that I concocted was allowing all races to get +2 to any single stat, and +2 to one of the two stats listed in the PHB. Snowlock convinced me that was a bad idea. I want to eliminate some of the race-class limitations that exist, but I'd also like race to matter somewhat. Although with racial skill bonuses, defense bonuses, feats, powers, etc... Maybe it would still be important enough.

I hadn't considered the full depth of the defenses issue that Ondo pointed out. It does seem like a balancing issue, although it also makes the new system more complex. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to describe those restrictions without lots of special cases.

I was also completely sold on the +2/+1 for humans, until I saw the 2 AP idea. That might fit with the flavor of humans even better than any stat modifier change. I like it.

 

[Snowlock]

The problem with an extra AP is that it doesn't scale with the number of encounters per day. If you fight twice it's extremely powerful, but if you fight 10 times you'd hardly notice it. How about just an encounter power where they get +1 to a d20 roll, maybe even as an intreupt?

I think the problem is that humans feel weaker to race/class combos that have optimal stat pairings, and we've just increased the number of pairings that exist.

 

[lutecius]

A high cha would certainly be as useful as dex to paragon eladrin wizards, unless they pick the wand implement. Spell Focus is sweet and their tailor-made path (Wizard of the Spiral Tower) uses Cha (Radiant Censure) but not dex.
Flavor-wise, the Warlock fey pact seems to fit eladrin too.

Wis would be a little to good because many wizard effects depend on it.
Either way, you should scrap the +1 to will defense.

Three reasons to give Eladrins Str over Cha.
First, 4 other races already get Cha, while 3 others get Str.
Second, if they had Cha they would have the same stat distribution as Halflings.
Third, the PHB itself says that Eladrin would make good Warlords. If they have Str it makes them the only class with good Str/Int pairing for a tactical warlord.

Cha would be very useful to a Warlord too. Having both Str and Int would be a little too good for an eladrin warlord. Eladrin are supposed to be scred stat-wise because they have better racial powers.
Fluff-wise, they are specifically described as thin and never muscle-bound, so a Str bonus would be odd, but Cha would fit their otherwordly good looks.

Why not let each race pick from all six and be done with it? Or just let them choose what scores they want, period?

Yes, at this point you could as well let eveyone pick their racial bonus (and I am not being sarcastic).

It's not like they make so much sense in the first place.
Tiefling have "centuries of other races' distrust and outright hatred", "in a world that often fears and resents them" but they get a bonus to Diplomacy?

The main purpose of these mods is to give some races an affinity with certain classes (Tiefling infernal warlocks, Dragonborn paladins of Bahamut et al)

So you might as well ignore them, like everyone ignored favored classes in 3e.

 

[Inf Class]

Playing around with the comments from people above, here would be the new stat modifiers:

Dragonborn: Str/Con/Cha
Dwarf: Str/Con/Wis
Eladrin: Dex/Int/Cha *Changed*
Elf: Str/Dex/Wis
Half Elf: Str/Con/Wis/Cha *Changed*
Halfling: Dex/Int/Cha
Tiefling: Con/Int/Cha

We end up with yet another charisma race, but oh well, the like it a lot in 4e it seems.
The only other possible change would make halflings Dex/Wis/Cha, but that takes away one of the few Int races.

I will be using this interpretation of the house rule in my own game.

Good idea everyone!

 

[Hawke]

It's not like they make so much sense in the first place.
Tiefling have "centuries of other races' distrust and outright hatred", "in a world that often fears and resents them" but they get a bonus to Diplomacy?

Probably one of my top 3 favorite nonfiction books, but there's an essay in the 'sociology' book Black Rednecks & White Liberals by Thomas Sowell called "Are Jews Generic?" One of the things his studies looked at is why a "minority races" across the world are often in a position of go-between between two classes or two other disconnected majority races and how they use that to their advantage, are often wanted/needed despite being overtly hated and distrusted.

So maybe they aren't liked, but their years of experience being in that role allows them to be effective at finding common ground that is equitable. Even with a +2 to diplomacy, that wouldn't outclass a +5 to DC if they're disliked... but gives them more of an edge than the pretty popular human who suddenly meets a guy who doesn't like him and isn't as good at working through it.

::shrugs::

 

[pukunui]

... Haha, yeah. The first version of this idea that I concocted was allowing all races to get +2 to any single stat, and +2 to one of the two stats listed in the PHB.

Last night I had a similar idea except that mine was that each race gets a +2 to a specific stat and then they can choose where to put the other +2 from a list of about three or so.

As an example, the dragonborn would get +2 STR and +2 to either CON, WIS, or CHA.

I made up a full list but I'm at work now so it'll have to wait till I get home.

Also someone suggested to me in a different thread that the human should get to choose their bonus at-will from their power source (rather than from only their class or from everyone).

How does that sound to everyone?

 

[Ondo]

I started another thread with the house rule I'm contemplating to fix the same issue here. Interestingly, it seems possible to combine the two, if desired.

Having two stats that feed into the same save is a disadvantage, and the developers have said that Eladrin and Warforged get more powerful abilities to compensate.

I found the source for this - it's in the Warforged article, if anyone was wondering. (I never like posting "the developers said" without a source, but I didn't want to search for it at the time.)

 

[comrade raoul]

Cool idea! Some thoughts:

--) Tieflings got dexterity bonuses in earlier editions, and the tiefling rogue is pretty iconic. So, why not Dex instead of Con?
--) Half-elves: why not pair this with the increasingly standard fix: +2 to Cha, +2 to an ability of choice?
--) Halflings: halflings seem tough rather than smart. Why not Dex/Con/Cha?