Racial ASI removal: ASI to Class and Background

[Charlaquin]

There is a sweet spot where choices are beneficial while not having too great an impact. ASI's simply have far to great an impact and so having anything explicitly grant them becomes too much.

That said, my solution would be:

Neither race nor background gives Ability Score Increases.
Instead a PC gets a ability score bonuses that he chooses but is restricted by race and background. Each race has 2 ability scores that a PC could choose to increase. Each background has 1-2 as well. The PC gets to place a +2 in one of those ability scores and a +1 in another one of those ability scores. (Humans may be a little different).

This frees up race and background choice a lot more but still makes the choices have an impact but not too great an impact.

I like this a lot.

 

[5ekyu]

In a future campaign, I'd like to try to remove the racial stat bonus and give it to class and background (ala 13th Age).
1) First, I'll come up with a list of bonus for class and background
2) I'll probably need something to give to basic humans (Prodigy or Skilled feats-equivalent?)

Class ASI
Barbarian: +1 Str, +1 Con
Bard: +1 Cha, +1 Int
Cleric: +1 Wis, +1 Cha
Druid: +1 Wis, +1 Con
Fighter: +1 Str, +1 Dex
Monk: +1 Wis, +1 Int
Paladin: +1 Cha, +1 Wis
Ranger: +1 Dex, +1 Con
Rogue: +1 Dex, +1 Int
Sorcerer: +1 Cha, +1 Con
Warlock: +1 Int, +1 Cha
Wizard: +1 Int, +1 Wis

Background ASI
Acolyte: +1 Wis or +1 Int
Charlatan: +1 Cha or +1 Int
Criminal: +1 Dex or +1 Cha
Entertainer: +1 Cha or +1 Dex
Folk Hero: +1 Con or +1 Wis
Gladiator: +1 Con or +1 Str
Guild Artisan: +1 Int or +1 Dex
Guild Merchant: +1 Cha or +1 Int
Hermit: +1 Wis or +1 Con
Knight: +1 Cha or +1 Str
Noble: +1 Cha or +1 Dex
Outlander: +1 Con or +1 Wis
Pirate: +1 Dex or +1 Cha
Sage: +1 Int or +1 Wis
Sailor: +1 Str or +1 Con
Soldier: +1 Con or +1 Str
Spy: +1 Int or +1 Dex
Urchin: +1 Con or +1 Dex

Background (SCAG) ASI
City Watch: +1 Str or +1 Wis
Clan Crafter: +1 Str or +1 Int
Cloistered Scholar: +1 Wis or +1 Int
Courtier: +1 Cha or +1 WIs
Faction Agent: +1 Int or +1 Cha
Far traveler: +1 Con or +1 Dex
Inheritor: +1 Wis or +1 Con
Investigator: +1 Int or +1 Wis
Knight of the Order: +1 Wis or +1 Cha
Mercenary Veteran: +1 Str or +1 Con
Urban Bounty Hunter: +1 Dex or +1 Cha
Uthgart Tribe Member: +1 Str or +1 Wis
Waterdhavian Noble: +1 Int or +1 Cha

Background (Other) ASI
Haunted One:+1 Wis or +1 Con
Archaeologist: +1 Dex or +1 Int
Anthropologist: +1 Cha or +1 Int

For now, the ASI are purely arbitrary and a simple reflection of how I see them. How would you do it? What would you give to the base human?

Why? What is your goal? What is your hope for change in play that will be more fun?

This seems to be taking part of the tactical output optimization away from races and dumping thrm onyo backgrounds.

One of the **really big things** that make background great is that they don't play any significant role in the output number crunching so they can be chosen more for fun than for blammo.

In my games, I gave out bonus hp for race and backgrpund.

If your race had Con bonus - fixed or chosen - get 4 more hp at first level- otherwise get 2.

If your background included athletics - fixed or chosen - get 4 more hp at first level-. Otherwise get two.

My goal was to make the lowest levels be more "random crit proof" by giving an extra buffer of hp but not enough that it would matter much at all by tier 2. The 4-8 was just flavor for choices.

By the time optimization really gets even noticed, the 2 pt diff in BG choice wont matter and it never affects output.

I originally thought of giving each race, class and bg a +1 in either of 2-3 ability scores and those eould slso be favored saves but as soon as I started looking at it I saw it really started creating a much smaller number of "better trios " so I left those alone.

You goals may vary, but if certsin background directly helps me cast spells thst hit/work more often - odds are I wont be running that sorc thief option instead.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

I originally thought of giving each race, class and bg a +1 in either of 2-3 ability scores and those eould slso be favored saves but as soon as I started looking at it I saw it really started creating a much smaller number of "better trios " so I left those alone.

This gives me an interesting idea along the same lines. Since characters have race, background, and class, awarding a +1 in an ability for each might work nicely.

For example, you might award Halflings a +1 Dex, Guild Merchant a +1 Int or +1 Wis maybe, and then Paladin a +1 Chr. So, your Halfing Guild Merchant Paladin would get +1 Dex, +1 Int, and +1 Chr.

 

[5ekyu]

This gives me an interesting idea along the same lines. Since characters have race, background, and class, awarding a +1 in an ability for each might work nicely.

For example, you might award Halflings a +1 Dex, Guild Merchant a +1 Int or +1 Wis maybe, and then Paladin a +1 Chr. So, your Halfing Guild Merchant Paladin would get +1 Dex, +1 Int, and +1 Chr.

Yeah, that was my idea just with more flex for each - but i discarded linking BG into the Ability score hunt entirely for the reasons noted above.

I have found games with a good non-power-up package at chargen tirn out better for us that ones where every package includes power-ups.

 

[MarkB]

If you're going to de-couple starting ability score increases from race, is there really any point in then coupling them to something else? Why not just say "after you determine your ability scores, you can then add +2 to one ability score and +1 to another."?

 

[Blue]

I would completely steal from 13th Age, a d20 game similar to 5e even though it predates it.

It gives choice of two +2s for class, and a choice of two +2s for race. They can't be the same ability score.

Just in this case do it for background and class. Give out a meaningful bonus, but it can't stack with the other one to become overwhelming.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

If you're going to de-couple starting ability score increases from race, is there really any point in then coupling them to something else? Why not just say "after you determine your ability scores, you can then add +2 to one ability score and +1 to another."?

Really, unless you just want to boost scores, why bother adding anything for any of the above reasons?

For many players, IME, seeing a logical increase due to the make-up of a race makes sense. Likewise, if your character has a background in Soldier, for instance, it would make sense to also gain in one ability that you used/trained with more, such as a physical score. And, of course finally, it makes since that whatever experience you went through to acquire your class would likely lead to a related score boost as well by the time you became level 1. After all, you begin level 1 with some class features that you got from someplace or somehow.

With 9 races, 13 backgrounds, and 12 classes in the PHB alone, you would have over 1400 possible combinations for your character (if I didn't miss any LOL). Obviously there would be some overlap since you have, at best, 216 combinations for 3 ASIs (assuming you allow the same one to be selected up to three times-- such as a getting a Str +1 from race, background, and class...) but that would be understandable.

In the end, it is whatever works best for you and your group I suppose. Cheers.

 

[MarkB]

Really, unless you just want to boost scores, why bother adding anything for any of the above reasons?

For many players, IME, seeing a logical increase due to the make-up of a race makes sense. Likewise, if your character has a background in Soldier, for instance, it would make sense to also gain in one ability that you used/trained with more, such as a physical score. And, of course finally, it makes since that whatever experience you went through to acquire your class would likely lead to a related score boost as well by the time you became level 1. After all, you begin level 1 with some class features that you got from someplace or somehow.

With 9 races, 13 backgrounds, and 12 classes in the PHB alone, you would have over 1400 possible combinations for your character (if I didn't miss any LOL). Obviously there would be some overlap since you have, at best, 216 combinations for 3 ASIs (assuming you allow the same one to be selected up to three times-- such as a getting a Str +1 from race, background, and class...) but that would be understandable.

In the end, it is whatever works best for you and your group I suppose. Cheers.

My point is that, presumably, the motivation to remove ability score increases from races is so that you're not always picking races purely for their synergy with the class you're going to play. That being the case, wouldn't you also not want people to choose a specific background purely for class-synergy reasons?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why? What is your goal? What is your hope for change in play that will be more fun?

This. You seem to be taking away the option for players to create unconventional builds, for no benefit that I can see. And it doesn't take into account subclasses that might call for different attribute choices (e.g. Eldritch Knight).

 

[Shiroiken]

During the Playtest, you got a bonus for your race and for your class. I thought that was a great option, because both had an impact on your character, rather than just race.

As for your solution, it depends on what your goal is. Powergamers are gonna powergame, and all that will happen is that everyone play whatever race has the best ability benefits, and background will be chosen the way race is now.