Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
d4 said:
Wait, didn't you just say...?
-Hyp.
Racial variety
- Thread starter gin
- Start date
Wait, didn't you just say...?
-Hyp.
Ogre Mage
Hero
Skin color
Well, this is a fantasy world and you have races with blue, green, purple and silver skin colors. I am also a person of color who plays D&D and I don't think you can make any serious connection into real life with this. Elves, for instance, have some physical and even mental/social traits that are stereotypically associated with certain asian groups, but I don't assume that elves are supposed to represent asians!
Well, this is a fantasy world and you have races with blue, green, purple and silver skin colors. I am also a person of color who plays D&D and I don't think you can make any serious connection into real life with this. Elves, for instance, have some physical and even mental/social traits that are stereotypically associated with certain asian groups, but I don't assume that elves are supposed to represent asians!
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
I tend to think that if the setting is peudomedieval europe then let most of the humans be european.
What really pees me off is non-Europe settings (like say Maztica) when the PCs are still expected to be European! and the 'natives' are lumped in with the wildlife and local monsters!
S'mon
I always got the impression that Tolkiens Orcs were suppose to be Welsh
and Goblins are portrayed as cockney so often the GURPS based a whole setting on that concept
and I wonder whats more offensive - Native American Orcs or Native American Elves?
(PS I'm also a nice coffee coloured person whose ancestors went from cannibals to noble savages to an even mix of corporate warriors and bludgers! - at least according to the stereotypes)
What really pees me off is non-Europe settings (like say Maztica) when the PCs are still expected to be European! and the 'natives' are lumped in with the wildlife and local monsters!
S'mon
I always got the impression that Tolkiens Orcs were suppose to be Welsh
and Goblins are portrayed as cockney so often the GURPS based a whole setting on that concept
and I wonder whats more offensive - Native American Orcs or Native American Elves?
(PS I'm also a nice coffee coloured person whose ancestors went from cannibals to noble savages to an even mix of corporate warriors and bludgers! - at least according to the stereotypes)
RangerWickett
Legend
My campaign setting takes place primarily on one continent, which is about as big as Europe. It used to be the homeland of a psuedo-Chinese human race, an Elvish race that's vaguely Assyrian, an Elvish race that's vaguely Japanese, Russian-esque nomad cultures of human and Herethim that are related (Herethim are like Orcs, in that they're big and not as bright as humans, but they're more akin to Neanderthals than sub-men), a human race that's a bit Moorish, gnomes who are sort of like gypsies, gnomes who are sort of like hobbits, an Elvish race that lives in the islands and are vaguely Carribean, and fey who stick to themselves.
This continent was slowly conquered by humans from the east who were psuedo-Roman. They managed to sieze a large swath of land that included the
Japanese Elves, the nomadic humans and Herethim, and they almost conquered the Moorish humans. Then, a few hundred years later, the Herethim got control of powerful magic that let them teleport wherever they wanted. Over a few decades they conquered the world.
The rulers of course became corrupt, and eventually the world-spanning empire was toppled, its powerful magic destroyed. The ensuing struggles for control of territory dropped this entire continent into a dark ages. The other continent, where the Roman-esque humans had originally come from, had less direct contact with this continent, so they had an easier time going back to their own nations. Plus they had slightly less magic in their continent, which meant there were fewer complete annihilations of cities and such. However, that other continent has mostly stuck to its own business since then, and without the need to sail around the world to get to lucrative spice traders, no one has since wanted to sail west and circumnavigate the globe. Tales of the primary continent of my world have become legend.
So, on the primary continent, numerous new cultures developed, and some of the old ones changed. The Assyrian Elves were driven from their homes by humans who adopted their culture, so we have Assyrian humans. There's still psuedo-Chinese humans, but they don't have a nation of their own, and instead can be seen in most human nations. The Japanese Elves had to flee their original homeland, and so there are numerous pockets of Elvish cultures, mostly in forests, that are all mixings of Japanese culture with some other culture (my favorite is the aristocratic Elves who are sort of like the Centauri from Babylon 5, but who draw manga). The influence of the Roman-esque humans and the Romanized-but-still-slightly-original Herethim world conquerers is seen all over the place, so I ended up with a vague European-esque continent, but with lots of different influences.
I finagled out that there are around 40 languages that have large cultures attached to them, and undoubtedly dozens of others in remote areas. There are even thirteen different Goblin languages (Goblin is a derivative of Gnomish, which itself is a highly adaptive language capable of absorbing tons of foreign words without drifting too much; Goblin just managed to drift too far). I had to figure out all these languages because one of my new friends is a language nut, and when she joined the game she wanted to know how many she could learn. By playing a rogue with an 18 intelligence, she managed to learn them all.
The point of this? No idea. I was just intrigued and decided to write out a synopsis of my ideas.
This continent was slowly conquered by humans from the east who were psuedo-Roman. They managed to sieze a large swath of land that included the
Japanese Elves, the nomadic humans and Herethim, and they almost conquered the Moorish humans. Then, a few hundred years later, the Herethim got control of powerful magic that let them teleport wherever they wanted. Over a few decades they conquered the world.
The rulers of course became corrupt, and eventually the world-spanning empire was toppled, its powerful magic destroyed. The ensuing struggles for control of territory dropped this entire continent into a dark ages. The other continent, where the Roman-esque humans had originally come from, had less direct contact with this continent, so they had an easier time going back to their own nations. Plus they had slightly less magic in their continent, which meant there were fewer complete annihilations of cities and such. However, that other continent has mostly stuck to its own business since then, and without the need to sail around the world to get to lucrative spice traders, no one has since wanted to sail west and circumnavigate the globe. Tales of the primary continent of my world have become legend.
So, on the primary continent, numerous new cultures developed, and some of the old ones changed. The Assyrian Elves were driven from their homes by humans who adopted their culture, so we have Assyrian humans. There's still psuedo-Chinese humans, but they don't have a nation of their own, and instead can be seen in most human nations. The Japanese Elves had to flee their original homeland, and so there are numerous pockets of Elvish cultures, mostly in forests, that are all mixings of Japanese culture with some other culture (my favorite is the aristocratic Elves who are sort of like the Centauri from Babylon 5, but who draw manga). The influence of the Roman-esque humans and the Romanized-but-still-slightly-original Herethim world conquerers is seen all over the place, so I ended up with a vague European-esque continent, but with lots of different influences.
I finagled out that there are around 40 languages that have large cultures attached to them, and undoubtedly dozens of others in remote areas. There are even thirteen different Goblin languages (Goblin is a derivative of Gnomish, which itself is a highly adaptive language capable of absorbing tons of foreign words without drifting too much; Goblin just managed to drift too far). I had to figure out all these languages because one of my new friends is a language nut, and when she joined the game she wanted to know how many she could learn. By playing a rogue with an 18 intelligence, she managed to learn them all.
The point of this? No idea. I was just intrigued and decided to write out a synopsis of my ideas.
Numion
First Post
gin said:
Doesn't bother me in the least. I can't see what would be gained from different skin colors in an imaginary game. Just like in the TV the shows are predominantly white, and that doesn't bother me. US shows tend to have the token black guy in, but does that really make a difference?
I like to steer away from allegory in my games. It's just pure escapism, not a vehicle for pc-brainwashing anybody.
DragonLancer
Hero
Tonguez said:
In a homebrew campaign I wrote over ten years ago, the elves of that world, which were only wood/wild elves, were based (appearence and culture) on Native Americans. It made them memorable to the players and gave them a different outlook in the game.
I don't think either is offensive. To repeat something that gets thrown about quite alot: Its a game! My next homebrew that I am working on at the moment has orcs as horse nomads, in a similar style to the Mongols. Is that offensive?
The subject of having racially divers cultures in D&D whether human or non-human, should be left up to the individual campaign and setting. I prefer a more traditional D&D approach, which means no asians usually. Its not racism, its just how I view my setting.
Malk
First Post
I think that as far as evil races having traits in common with negative racial stereotypes is somewhat unavoidable. Look at it from a more ignorant time perspective. European peoples didnt understand different ethnicities and were affraid of them and so they became "the bad guys" its a real shame that so much of human history has shaped that way, but now look at dnd where the evil humanoid races are "the bad guys" the same bad traits, imagined in real-life, will apply to the bad guys in fantasy. The only way to remove these traits and still have them be villains would be to give them motivations that are alien to our way of thinking, and thats a difficult thing to do.
hmm hope that made sense...not sure if it did
hmm hope that made sense...not sure if it did
Chasmodai
First Post
Ogre Mage said:
Nope. These would be the halflings. Y'know, short Chinese guys.
Alright, i'm just kidding. Back to the point.
I do not honestly believe that DnD is racist in anyway. Most people play in a Western European setting because that's what they're most familiar with. Western European fantasy is what DnD is based on and its what it will always be based on.
If you wish that DnD would be more... politically correct in terms of clarifying human skin tones and the like, then what you'll have in the future might be human "subraces". Y'know, like Asian, African American, British, etc, etc. Each subrace will have their own characteristics and personality stereotypes which, in turn, will overturn a brand new boiling pot of disagreements and all the other bad feelings we're trying to avoid.
E.g. What the hell do you mean Asians are not as strong as Americans? And why the hell are we shorter??
You get my drift.
Ultimately, it's just a game. And it's a game that was made to cater for it's players - mainly white people living in the places where there's winter. WotC has recognized the fact that they have a more diverse fanbase than before - so they came out with Oriental Adventures, which not only 'emulates' feudal Japan/China, but also throws in some details about the Malays and Indians.
Being Singaporean, and Malay, I appreciate the gesture. And they didn't make too many mistakes either.
The reason why I think most of the pcitures in the core books are of white humans/elves/dwarves/etc is because the artists are white humans/elves/dwarves/etc. The same applies to the players. If you're white, you'd most likely prefer to play someone who was white. We people from Singapore have suddenly picked up on the trend of playing Asian characters, even when we're not playing in Rokugan, or an OA campaign. It adds flavor, and a touch of familiarity, because there's a lot of history, traditions and myths and legends we can draw on.
All I'm saying is that if the original designers of DnD had been black (or Hispanic, or Asian), instead of white, then DnD would black (or Hispanic or Asian), instead of white. You write and draw what is most familiar to you, and it comes subconsciously. It has nothing to do with racism, bigotry or prejudice. It's just the way the human psyche works.
TLDR: DnD was made by white people for white people. But it doesn't have to be this way cos you can simply imagine all the white people depicted in the books to be whatever color you want. DnD is, after all, about using your imagination.
P.S. Oh, and about that orc thing. I believe that the DnD concept of orcs is mainly derived from all our ancestors - meaning the Neanderthals. The little details about their way of life and their traditions might sound familiar to you - but bear in mind that the designers had to get their inspiration from somewhere. *shrugs*
Desdichado
Hero
Huh?kirinke said:
Similar Threads
