Racial variety

[med stud]

I'm not sure why Gygax made his Drow black-skinned, most representations of 'dark elves' have them light-skinned, and the Norse dark elves were basically dwarves. Real-world creatures that live underground usually are pasty white, with no skin pigmentation.

According to a pretty serious book on nordic mythology that I read a while ago, dark elves were described as black (black as in coal) in the skin and lived ndergrond. They were evil too. So Gygax pretty much covered the bases of mythological dark elves when he made drow.

Dwarves in Nordic mythology were expert crafters and quite possibly black in the skin as well. They were often grouped together with dark elves for classification though.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Insinuating that D&D is rascist because everybody is white in a game heavily influenced by medieval Europe is like saying that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is rascist because everybody in it is Chinese.

 

[Emiricol]

unfortunately, the whole idea of drawing a fantasy world as you look does have something to do with racism, bigotry and prejudice.

I disagree completely, and in fact I am offended by your opinion (which you, again, didn't state as an opinion). Authors write what they know. So much so that it is a cliche line in TV sitcoms. Artists are no different, they just work in a different medium. I would be insulted if I were an artist who had ever drawn a picture for some D&D product. I would feel like you'd just called me a racist, because well, that's what you just did.

I respect your right to opinions I consistently disagree with 100%, but don't tell me what I am or am not, thank you very much.

 

[d4]

i still think it's interesting that even though the text of the PHB states that dwarves and gnomes are dark-skinned, i've never seen a dwarf or gnome illustrated that way in a WOTC product. they are always drawn as Caucasians, even though that doesn't match the description of them given in the text.

i don't believe that is willful, intentional, mean-spirited, conscious racism on the parts of the artists, but it is something. i think KB makes a good point.

 

[evileeyore]

According to a pretty serious book on nordic mythology that I read a while ago, dark elves were described as black (black as in coal) in the skin and lived ndergrond. They were evil too. So Gygax pretty much covered the bases of mythological dark elves when he made drow.

Dwarves in Nordic mythology were expert crafters and quite possibly black in the skin as well. They were often grouped together with dark elves for classification though.

Sweet Jumping Jeremiah! Someone who gets it!

Most of the 'fey' races were drawn from European and Scandinavian mythos (those races not 'lifted' from Tolkien). The Drow*, Druegar*, Snirvniblin*(sp?) being primarily Scandinavian.


*they got a renaming...


Thats not to say that E. Gary Gygax (a white guy) and Dave Arneson(another white guy) didn't pretty much completely ignore non-European sources for their game, but so what. It is the game they wanted.

On another tact- I really doubt RL ethnic groups were/are the basis for any of the racial models in the core books (I could be wrong...).

TTFN

EvilE

 

[Dirigible]

I always got the impression that Tolkiens Orcs were suppose to be Welsh and Goblins are portrayed as cockney so often the GURPS based a whole setting on that concept

Geh? I think you're darking up the wrong tree, Tonguez old boy. Orcs can't sing, and wouldn't go one round of lavalbread without passing out

 

[Emiricol]

i still think it's interesting that even though the text of the PHB states that dwarves and gnomes are dark-skinned, i've never seen a dwarf or gnome illustrated that way in a WOTC product. they are always drawn as Caucasians, even though that doesn't match the description of them given in the text.

i don't believe that is willful, intentional, mean-spirited, conscious racism on the parts of the artists, but it is something. i think KB makes a good point.

Well the races section of the PHB is just line art. In the Classes section, Krusk sure isn't caucasian. The gnome, Gimble, is hard to peg since he has some sort of bright white light on him and the rest is darker for shadowing (the eyes are blue, but that's in keeping with the racial description). Jozan could be Spanish or Italian based on the Cleric picture, or he could be caucasian. I don't think it is clear one way or the other. The druid is more green than white. Tordek, under Fighter, is tanned not superwhite, and his eyes are clearly not Caucasian. The beard looks brown-red to me, but I think it is meant to be brown per the description. No one can tell me that Regdar as illustrated in classes section is caucasian. He isn't. Ember is definitely Black. Alhandra looks quasi-Asian, especially in the eyes. Soveliss is probably white, but he's an elf. He looks tanned to me though, not pink like "white" people are. Lidda looks undead. Hennet isn't white - he looks maybe Korean? Japanese? Mialee is white. Nebin is dark-skinned, with dark hair and a swarthy complexion.

All in all, I'd say the race question, in terms of D&D as I know it, is off target.

 

[s/LaSH]

As an actual artist, I'll be sure to take special note of the demihuman pigmentation notes presented here...

Meanwhile, in my homebrew setting (which is Medieval Europe with magic), I've taken a slightly different tack on race. Humans are a tropical and subtropical race, ranging from black to olive in complexion (and anyone lighter probably has elven blood), extending to the Mediterranean but no further north. Elves occupy the temperate and subarctic territories, and hang around being light-skinned all the time. Dwarves hang out with the elves, but frequently habitate in caverns rather than the surface world. Orcs inhabit the temperate climate band, but take the role of Cossacks, Mongols or similar tribal horse raiders - they're just another group of people, and in fact, the first orc my players met was in the elf-ruled city of Buda-Pesht, where he was busking in the street (in the human-orc half of the city). They were level 10 at the time. Gnolls are a tropical race native to southern Africa, some of whom migrated north a couple of centuries ago and converted to Islam. They're most often seen as police or elite troops in Africa. There are goblins, who are green or purple and have no historical precedent, but they're evil so it's OK to hate them (they have a very specific role in the setting, but it's a secret). Finally there's the folks who live underwater, some of whom are blue, some of whom are other colours all at once. There's no real-world parallel there either.

It occurs to me that this way, I've actually eliminated your stereotypical white guy such as myself from the setting (all the places my ancestry comes from are elven lands). If you've read my comic, you'll note that Cat and Lorenzo seem pretty white, of course, but they're edge population (Venice is about as far north as any human lands get), and they're nowhere as pale as Alraud. Also the whole 'I draw from experience' thing.

So there you have my take on matters: I just don't care. This seemed a logical way to deal with the source material, so I did it. And the only time it's offended someone was when a German online somewhere mentioned that he was now technically an elf. I reminded him that, since he was Bavarian, he was probably a dwarf and therefore excused to drink much ale, and all was well.

 

[D+1]

I am a black gamer who lives on the south side of chicago. Most of my players are also black, though it is an even mixture of men and women. Throughout numerous sessions of Dungeons and Dragons we have had discussios on the lack of anything but white elves, white dwarves, white halflings and white gnomes. I know what some people will say, if you want black elves put them in there, if you want asian dwarves add em.
This way of thinking is all well and good but I guess my question is why after all these years hasn't TSR or Wotc changed this.

Well, for starters, D&D was originally based on a pseudo-medieval Europe (PME), which makes the races dealt with predominantly Caucasian. As all RPG's, including D&D, have begun to explore outside of that PME mindset that has changed a little. But taking the biggest, most popular setting of Forgotten Realms as an example, it's still largely that PME mold. Also, since RACE in D&D applies not to skin color but to something OTHER than Human, skin color tends to be used as an imprimatur of alien or foreign. In other words, in the nation of BlahBlah, where you have Humans, Elves, and Dwarves as races, you get associations of Humans, Elves, and Dwarves of darker skin colors as foriegners. That's a non-trivial point.

Adding to that, I think it's likely that until fairly recently rpg's were still VERY predominantly written and illustrated by white authors. It's perfectly normal that they should then create game materials where white=self=common, and color=other=foreign/alien. As a little side note I'd point out that Judges Guild, the first real 3rd party publishers of D&D material, had a game world (the Wilderlands/City State of the Invincible Overlord) where exotic, even randomly generated skin (and eye/hair) color was often used for characters.

I will not even get on the whole drow=dark skin debate.

Well then I'll just say that that is simply, I believe, an unfortunate choice for today's real-life circumstances. Were Gary Gygax to invent the race of Drow today, it's very probable that he'd avoid giving them black skin because of sensitivities regarding the real-life equating of dark skin color with evil. But, since it is not something that was done out of motivation of racism or bigotry there's no reason to change it.

But I would like to hear other peoples feelings or oppinions about this lack of racial variety in non-human races. I for one feel like it is way past time for WoTC to step forward in time and realize their game is played by people with a multitude of racial backgrounds. The games above have.

WotC has. Not to any really obvious degree but you have to admit that having at least ONE iconic character as black is a step in that direction. Maybe not enough, and maybe not even well-done, but it's movement. Just as moving to the use of male and female pronouns in text examples is meant to be inclusionary of women.

Since you do give examples of other games that have more "racial variety in non-human races" I think you're only demonstrating that the status quo IS changing in that regard.

 

[Malk]

i still think it's interesting that even though the text of the PHB states that dwarves and gnomes are dark-skinned, i've never seen a dwarf or gnome illustrated that way in a WOTC product. they are always drawn as Caucasians, even though that doesn't match the description of them given in the text.

i don't believe that is willful, intentional, mean-spirited, conscious racism on the parts of the artists, but it is something. i think KB makes a good point.

yeah but then again...they drew mialee PURPLE! whats up with that?