D&D 5E Rage of Demons more details.

[Prism]

Demogorgon is just one of the 8 known Demon Lords runing around. And he will be a fairly major one given that he is on the cover.

Anyway it's not like Drizzt can beat Demogorgon on his own anyway. If he is involved in the Demogorgon plot of the Book presumably he will just be helping you out.

I'm interested to see how they do it. If Drizzt fights and possibly defeats Demogorgon in the novel then I guess the adventure can't really use him except as a story backdrop. Or maybe he can't defeat him and then asks the party to do it if they can. Or maybe Demogorgon isn't really used in the novel at all and that focuses more on what the drow are up to during all this.

I'm also wondering how the party can cope with demon lords even at the level they will end up at. A balor is CR19 so I would have thought they would need to be a touch higher than that

 

[Sacrosanct]

Surviving a battle against Dragons out of pure luck and help from others is not what I would call a stu. Seriously first time he encountered Arauthator the Dragon. He was knocked off a cliff and Cold breathed. Drizzt more, accepted his death. Before noticing he was not dead. Having just remembered before before he left to scout in the snowstorm that Catti Brie cast a spell on him. Which was protection from cold so he would so he would not be slowed down as much by the cold. Despite this he was still badly injured. Arauthator meanwhile just left.

Even earlier he still had guys he could not overcome. Obould for example. The first time he fought Obould he lost horribly and just ran away before he was killed. The second time he fought Obould he had a new magic sword to stack the fight in his favor and Oboulds Drow allies betrayed him and cursed his armor further stacking the fight against Obould. Drizzt still could not beat him and the fight came to a Draw when the Drow priestess blasted them both off a cliff. (Both of them survived the fall.)

Surviving and being on the winning side in the end is also not a sue trait. That's just a trait of most heroes.

Sorry, but those things are exactly what makes him a Gary Stu. Drizzt checks off nearly every single one of the qualifications, and "never dying despite coming close to death all the time" is one of those things. You don't have to believe me, it's all right here. Or look up your own list if you want. Everything you describe is pretty much on every checklist of what makes a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

Shhhh. Don't let things like facts interfere with a rant.

You think what I said above was a rant? That's an....odd interpretation. Then again, the facts are on my side, so I shouldn't find it surprising that you wouldn't know what "rant" means if you think I am ignoring the facts when they literally support my argument. If you're gonna be totally wrong, might as well be wrong and hyperbolic. It's the internet way I suppose.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Sorry, but those things are exactly what makes him a Gary Stu. Drizzt checks off nearly every single one of the qualifications, and "never dying despite coming close to death all the time" is one of those things. You don't have to believe me, it's all right here. Or look up your own list if you want. Everything you describe is pretty much on every checklist of what makes a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.



You think what I said above was a rant? That's an....odd interpretation. Then again, the facts are on my side, so I shouldn't find it surprising that you wouldn't know what "rant" means if you think I am ignoring the facts when they literally support my argument. If you're gonna be totally wrong, might as well be wrong and hyperbolic. It's the internet way I suppose.

No they are not. Most heroes in books and stories don't die. That has nothing to do with being a stu. Here I will will go over your entry.

[] Does your character have a wierd/crazy hair color? Yes but that is just a Drow thing. All Drow have that hair.
[] Is your character super beautiful/handsome and everyone loves him/her? No. He is Handsome but lots of people don't like him.
[] Does your character constantly angst over small things? No. He does angst but it tends to be about fairly major things when he does. Even then it's not often
[] Does his/her inner dialogue stretch for more than two paragraphs? Yes. He does like to think to himself
[] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character looks like? No
[] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character acts like? No
[] Do other characters have a completely unfounded and unbased love for your character [If there is no backstory or growth between the two and the other character suddenly tell people that they love him/her]? No
[] Is your character's name extremely KAWAII DESU or GRIMDARK? No
[] Is your character definitely the cutest or darkest thing ever, for forever ever? No
[] If your character is in an already made story, are the other characters still in character? Yes the other guys are in character
[] Does your character talk a whole lot? Yes. Drizzt does like to talk
[] Does your character constantly talk about things that they like/don't like? No
[] Is your character getting hit on by characters from other books/animes/movies/comics? No
[] From the previous question, do more than two from two different medias hit on your character? No
[] Does you character say stuff like OMG LOL KAWAII ROFL DESU DESU, or DARK PAIN DARKNESS NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME? No
[] Do you think your character is perfect? No
[] Is your character unkillable? He is not unkillable, but he is unlikely to die. So I will mark this as a yes
[] Does your character get easily offended? No
[] Is your character over-dramatic over relationships? No
[] Does you character bitch and moan over all the relationship problems they have constantly? No
[] Does your character have a twin/alternate twin/has someone that looks just like him/her? No

This makes him a 5 meaning

5+ - Getting colder but not too problematic.

Aka not a stu. He is a protagonist of a Story. So no the facts are not on your side.

 

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

I've got boxes of silly D&D adventures, I'm not sure what anyone expects really.

 

[Sacrosanct]

No they are not. Most heroes in books and stories don't die. That has nothing to do with being a stu. Here I will will go over your entry.

[] Does your character have a wierd/crazy hair color? Yes but that is just a Drow thing. All Drow have that hair.
[] Is your character super beautiful/handsome and everyone loves him/her? No. He is Handsome but lots of people don't like him.
[] Does your character constantly angst over small things? No. He does angst but it tends to be about fairly major things when he does. Even then it's not often
[] Does his/her inner dialogue stretch for more than two paragraphs? Yes. He does like to think to himself
[] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character looks like? No
[] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character acts like? No
[] Do other characters have a completely unfounded and unbased love for your character [If there is no backstory or growth between the two and the other character suddenly tell people that they love him/her]? No
[] Is your character's name extremely KAWAII DESU or GRIMDARK? No
[] Is your character definitely the cutest or darkest thing ever, for forever ever? No
[] If your character is in an already made story, are the other characters still in character? Yes the other guys are in character
[] Does your character talk a whole lot? Yes. Drizzt does like to talk
[] Does your character constantly talk about things that they like/don't like? No
[] Is your character getting hit on by characters from other books/animes/movies/comics? No
[] From the previous question, do more than two from two different medias hit on your character? No
[] Does you character say stuff like OMG LOL KAWAII ROFL DESU DESU, or DARK PAIN DARKNESS NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME? No
[] Do you think your character is perfect? No
[] Is your character unkillable? He is not unkillable, but he is unlikely to die. So I will mark this as a yes
[] Does your character get easily offended? No
[] Is your character over-dramatic over relationships? No
[] Does you character bitch and moan over all the relationship problems they have constantly? No
[] Does your character have a twin/alternate twin/has someone that looks just like him/her? No

This makes him a 5 meaning

5+ - Getting colder but not too problematic.

Aka not a stu. He is a protagonist of a Story. So no the facts are not on your side.

did you even read any books with Drizzt in them? He hits about 15 of those checkmarks. Certainly a lot more than 5. His whole deal wasn't just "different because Drow". In dozens of books Salvatore makes it a point to mention how exotic he his and how every woman ends up wanting him at some point. I admit I haven't read all books, but I have read a lot, from the very first Crystal Shard series up to a book written about a year ago. Drizzt is full of angst, monologues, exotic unique appearance where women want him and men want to be him, unkillable, way over dramatic with everything (Cattie-Brie, etc---seriously, I don't know how you can with a straight face answer "no" to over dramatic with relationships), the list goes on and on.

I'll also note that your own argument went like this;

"Drizzt as fought MANY opponents better than him and a lot more deadly than him."

"Oh, so he's dead then?"

"No. He doesn't actually suffer any permanent loss of life or limb..."

"Ok then..."

Yeah, Drizzt is textbook Gary Stu. The facts are on my side. He isn't the only protagonist in the stories, so your theory that protagonists can/won't ever die is objectively wrong. That's one of the big things that makes them a Gary Stu/Mary Sue, because he's the only one that doesn't die or suffer permanent loss of life/limb. What seems clear here is you're a Driz'zt fanboy because you're ignoring all the actual facts that support my argument. Written fanfic about him yet?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Let's actually look at the facts. I.e., things that have actually happened in the books. And i know I'm missing several because I've probably only read half of the books with him in it:

[X] Does your character have a wierd/crazy hair color? Yes. His whole deal was to be exotic and unique from everyone else in the books. That's how he was introduced in fact.
[X] Is your character super beautiful/handsome and everyone loves him/her? Yes again. Reiterated many times throughout the books. Salvatore seems to really like describing how athletic, toned yet lithe, beautiful he is. All women end up wanting him, all men end up wanting to be him or kill him out of jealousy
[X] Does your character constantly angst over small things? OMG yes. Constantly. Between friendships, politics, racial identity, second guessing his violent nature, the list goes on and on and never stops.
[X] Does his/her inner dialogue stretch for more than two paragraphs? All. The. Freaking. Time.
[X] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character looks like? Yes. Salvatore went on for paragraphs describing him in The Crystal Shard
[X] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character acts like? Yep. And it's constantly being re-described in almost every book.
[X] Do other characters have a completely unfounded and unbased love for your character [If there is no backstory or growth between the two and the other character suddenly tell people that they love him/her]? Yes again! Constantly being hit on by women who are infatuated with him. Even by the "bad guys"
[X] Is your character's name extremely KAWAII DESU or GRIMDARK? Definitely yes. Again, look at how he was introduced and written about originally. Because that context matters, not how in later books years later more drow were introduced with similar names.
[X] Is your character definitely the cutest or darkest thing ever, for forever ever? This one is obvious. I swear, I think DRizzt was the launch pad for the EMO culture, looking at the timeline when he came out, fans fell in love with him, and the emo/goth culture took off. It's almost as if Drizzt was an homage to Anne Rice's characters. Seriously, replace Louis with Driz'zt and it's the same book.
[] If your character is in an already made story, are the other characters still in character?
[] Does your character talk a whole lot?
[] Does your character constantly talk about things that they like/don't like?
[] Is your character getting hit on by characters from other books/animes/movies/comics? I'll say no here, only because Salvatore hasn't written about cross media in his books. However, the character itself is constantly being hit on in slashfic with fan creations
[] From the previous question, do more than two from two different medias hit on your character?
[X] Does you character say stuff like OMG LOL KAWAII ROFL DESU DESU, or DARK PAIN DARKNESS NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME? Yes, constantly complaining about inner turmoil that no one understands
[X] Do you think your character is perfect? well, that seems to be how Salvatore wrote him.
[X] Is your character unkillable? When every other main protagonist has died in your books, yet DRizzt always seems to come out unscathed (no permanent injury), it's a clear answer
[] Does your character get easily offended?
[X] Is your character over-dramatic over relationships? All the time. Especially with the loss of Catie-Brie and his friendship with Bruenor
[X] Does you character bitch and moan over all the relationship problems they have constantly? In monologues, yes. several times in several books
[] Does your character have a twin/alternate twin/has someone that looks just like him/her?

0-5 - Thank god, you got away clean! Go celebrate!

5+ - Getting colder but not too problematic.

10+ - Borderline Mary Sue/Gary Stu, tread lightly.

15+ - Uh, you have some serious editing to do with your character.

21 - You probably wrote My Immortal because that's what I used to make this.


So that's 14? And I could probably check off more if I went through the stories again. Salvatore has written literally dozens of protagonists, and not a single one is like Drizzt, or garners the special attention he gets.

 

[Hussar]

Sorry, but those things are exactly what makes him a Gary Stu. Drizzt checks off nearly every single one of the qualifications, and "never dying despite coming close to death all the time" is one of those things. You don't have to believe me, it's all right here. Or look up your own list if you want. Everything you describe is pretty much on every checklist of what makes a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.



You think what I said above was a rant? That's an....odd interpretation. Then again, the facts are on my side, so I shouldn't find it surprising that you wouldn't know what "rant" means if you think I am ignoring the facts when they literally support my argument. If you're gonna be totally wrong, might as well be wrong and hyperbolic. It's the internet way I suppose.

Umm I didn't quote you did I? Why are you responding to me?

Had to go back and look and yup was responding to [MENTION=45197]pming[/MENTION] and his over the top pessimism. Not sure what you thought I was saying to you but afaic trying to claim Mary Sue status for Drizzt is pretty pointless. I really couldn't care less.

 

[Chocolategravy]

There is not several hundred Level 10 fighters.

The Drow Elite Warrior from the Monster Manual is the closest thing. Lets say there are 500 of them in the city.

The Drow Elite Warrior is a level 11 fighter...

Next to none of them will be in the same place and will instead be at the houses which can be quite a distance from each other that employ them.

At houses that all have siege engines, mages to make them magical and arsenals of magic items stockpiled over hundreds or thousands of years.

Of these lets say only 50 of them have magic items. These are the only these 50 will be able to hurt him, and by default magic short swords are the only magic weapons they have access to.

You're reaching more than Mr. Fantastic on this. If the houses are equipping all their elite warriors with +2 swords and armor, having access to magic bows is pretty obvious.

Demogorgon will just focus on things they can actually hurt him over things that can't.

He'll be long dead. Both a Tarrasque and Tiamat would get annihilated in Menzoberranzan, I doubt Demogorgon will be any different.

Bounded accuracy allowing low level monsters to be a threat was supposed to be a selling point of 5E. Drow aren't even low level monsters, they're definitely a threat.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The Drow Elite Warrior is a level 11 fighter...



At houses that all have siege engines, mages to make them magical and arsenals of magic items stockpiled over hundreds or thousands of years.



You're reaching more than Mr. Fantastic on this. If the houses are equipping all their elite warriors with +2 swords and armor, having access to magic bows is pretty obvious.



He'll be long dead. Both a Tarrasque and Tiamat would get annihilated in Menzoberranzan, I doubt Demogorgon will be any different.

Bounded accuracy allowing low level monsters to be a threat was supposed to be a selling point of 5E. Drow aren't even low level monsters, they're definitely a threat.

They don't have access to magic bows however. And they can't give all of their elites magic items. And only drow with Magic Weapons can hurt them. Also houses don't use siege weapons often. Plus a Mages first reaction to somthing like this happening would be shoot the monster with fireballs and . Which would do nothing.

So no neither Demogorgon nor Tiamat would be annihilated. Menzoberranzan has quite a few magic items but they would be too widespread among the city to do any effective damage.

Also A Drow Elite Warrior is not a Level 11 fighter. They are much weaker then that.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Let's actually look at the facts. I.e., things that have actually happened in the books. And i know I'm missing several because I've probably only read half of the books with him in it:

[X] Does your character have a wierd/crazy hair color? Yes. His whole deal was to be exotic and unique from everyone else in the books. That's how he was introduced in fact.
[X] Is your character super beautiful/handsome and everyone loves him/her? Yes again. Reiterated many times throughout the books. Salvatore seems to really like describing how athletic, toned yet lithe, beautiful he is. All women end up wanting him, all men end up wanting to be him or kill him out of jealousy
[X] Does your character constantly angst over small things? OMG yes. Constantly. Between friendships, politics, racial identity, second guessing his violent nature, the list goes on and on and never stops.
[X] Does his/her inner dialogue stretch for more than two paragraphs? All. The. Freaking. Time.
[X] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character looks like? Yes. Salvatore went on for paragraphs describing him in The Crystal Shard
[X] Does it take more than two paragraphs to describe what your character acts like? Yep. And it's constantly being re-described in almost every book.
[X] Do other characters have a completely unfounded and unbased love for your character [If there is no backstory or growth between the two and the other character suddenly tell people that they love him/her]? Yes again! Constantly being hit on by women who are infatuated with him. Even by the "bad guys"
[X] Is your character's name extremely KAWAII DESU or GRIMDARK? Definitely yes. Again, look at how he was introduced and written about originally. Because that context matters, not how in later books years later more drow were introduced with similar names.
[X] Is your character definitely the cutest or darkest thing ever, for forever ever? This one is obvious. I swear, I think DRizzt was the launch pad for the EMO culture, looking at the timeline when he came out, fans fell in love with him, and the emo/goth culture took off. It's almost as if Drizzt was an homage to Anne Rice's characters. Seriously, replace Louis with Driz'zt and it's the same book.
[] If your character is in an already made story, are the other characters still in character?
[] Does your character talk a whole lot?
[] Does your character constantly talk about things that they like/don't like?
[] Is your character getting hit on by characters from other books/animes/movies/comics? I'll say no here, only because Salvatore hasn't written about cross media in his books. However, the character itself is constantly being hit on in slashfic with fan creations
[] From the previous question, do more than two from two different medias hit on your character?
[X] Does you character say stuff like OMG LOL KAWAII ROFL DESU DESU, or DARK PAIN DARKNESS NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME? Yes, constantly complaining about inner turmoil that no one understands
[X] Do you think your character is perfect? well, that seems to be how Salvatore wrote him.
[X] Is your character unkillable? When every other main protagonist has died in your books, yet DRizzt always seems to come out unscathed (no permanent injury), it's a clear answer
[] Does your character get easily offended?
[X] Is your character over-dramatic over relationships? All the time. Especially with the loss of Catie-Brie and his friendship with Bruenor
[X] Does you character bitch and moan over all the relationship problems they have constantly? In monologues, yes. several times in several books
[] Does your character have a twin/alternate twin/has someone that looks just like him/her?

0-5 - Thank god, you got away clean! Go celebrate!

5+ - Getting colder but not too problematic.

10+ - Borderline Mary Sue/Gary Stu, tread lightly.

15+ - Uh, you have some serious editing to do with your character.

21 - You probably wrote My Immortal because that's what I used to make this.


So that's 14? And I could probably check off more if I went through the stories again. Salvatore has written literally dozens of protagonists, and not a single one is like Drizzt, or garners the special attention he gets.

God I can be borthered to go through this again. Most of these still are not true and I don't have the time or Energy to go over them again at the moment. I will correct you after I sleep.