Raging magic item use?

[LokiDR]

This is another element of items that could use more definition. What do you need to know to use a spell from a ring of spell storing? Just what spell is in there?

For games I run, I think the first thing I would say is that barbarians can not use magical items when asked. That should keep the powergamers down. Then, if it would really save a player's bacon, I would overlook the restriction. If that player did it all the time and it wasn't overpowering, I keep my mouth shut. It it became a problem, or the player wanted a spellcasting class, I would repeat the sage's ruling on item while raging.

None of us are on solid ground regarding item use, except possibly scrolls. Since we all can agree that scroll use is against the idea of rage, it isn't even an issue. Like many things in the game, it is a DM call.

 

[hong]

This is another element of items that could use more definition. What do you need to know to use a spell from a ring of spell storing? Just what spell is in there?

Pretty much, yes.

For games I run, I think the first thing I would say is that barbarians can not use magical items when asked.

Are you "trolling" again?

That should keep the powergamers down.

Ah, you are indeed. Carry on, then.

 

[hong]

I'm also one of those people who argue for the sake of it - I'm genuinely interested in the negative effects of allowing command words in this situation, and also other peoples takes on it. And the best way to find out what someone thinks is to argue with them about it...

Would you really like to know what I think?

I'd agree that spell trigger items have something more to them than just saying the words. Hell, I'd be likely to throw in AoO's and concentration checks for them, along with requiring the V and S components for the spells being used, since I already see casting a spell as being a spell trigger action in and of itself. (ie - the item is holding a prepared spell, much like a mage prepares his spells every morning, and just 'finishes' the spell at casting time)

You're thinking of spell completion items, aka scrolls. A spell completion item is one that's mostly finished, and the user just adds the final touches. A spell _trigger_ item does not require any V or S components. All that's required is knowledge of spellcasting.

Further to that, I'm kind of torn when it comes to command word items. Clearly it requires something more than the command word, or it wouldn't require an action. Perhaps it also requires a gesture? (brandishing the sword when you say "thundercats...", clicking your heels together for winged boots etc). I can't see it requiring more than that, or we'd be back into concentration land again.

You are thinking too hard about fantasy. Stop thinking.

I see the command word as being the catalyst for a process that, once started, continues without further need for intervention from the user. Saying the word doesn't take any time in itself, but the entire process still takes a significant amount of time to complete. This is why 1) you don't need to concentrate to activate these items; 2) the activating takes a standard action.

To these, I'd add: the process draws on the inner spirit/soul/ki/any other mystical reservoir of energy you care to name, in a way that's attuned to a particular user and has limits on how much energy can be drawn at once. This prevents 3) random people from activating your items by saying the command word; and 4) abuse by having multiple items each with the same command word, which could all be triggered at the same time.

 

[LokiDR]

You are thinking too hard about fantasy. Stop thinking.

I see the command word as being the catalyst for a process that, once started, continues without further need for intervention from the user. Saying the word doesn't take any time in itself, but the entire process still takes a significant amount of time to complete. This is why 1) you don't need to concentrate to activate these items; 2) the activating takes a standard action.

To these, I'd add: the process draws on the inner spirit/soul/ki/any other mystical reservoir of energy you care to name, in a way that's attuned to a particular user and has limits on how much energy can be drawn at once. This prevents 3) random people from activating your items by saying the command word; and 4) abuse by having multiple items each with the same command word, which could all be triggered at the same time.

I think you have been thinking about this too hard

 

[hong]

I think you have been thinking about this too hard

 

[Bauglir]

4) abuse by having multiple items each with the same command word, which could all be triggered at the same time.

* Pictures armoured giant with wands of Magic Missile mounted on the head, torso & arms of his armour; command word: 'fire' *

Oh wait, that's a different game

 

[LokiDR]

* Pictures armoured giant with wands of Magic Missile mounted on the head, torso & arms of his armour; command word: 'fire' *

Oh wait, that's a different game

Do you know how hard you have to work just to get an LRM20 in D&D? While hasted, two twined magic missles at 9th+ caster level. Show me the the Macross.