Railroading is bad?

[I'm A Banana]

Okay, I'll agree with you that "Ward Against Teleportation" is a needed D&D spell.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Gotcha covered!

Forbiddance

Area: 60 ft cube/level

Duration: Permanent

Forbiddance seals an area against all planar travel into or within it. This includes all teleportation spells (such as dimension door and teleport), plane shifting, astral travel, ethereal travel, and all summoning spells. Such effects simply fail automatically.

 

[Abstraction]

I really think that The Universe is using a different definition of railroading then the rest of us. He seems to be saying that if the DM plans anything, or if the players fail in anything that it's railroading.

The definition that most of us are using is like this:

Player: I try to do this
DM: No you don't

or

Player: I have decided not to do this
DM: You do it anyway

See the difference? Let's take a look at the bad guy has to get away thing. The non-railroad way:

Wizard: He's trying to get away? I stop him! I cast Web over the door.
DM: First everyone roll init
Players roll initiative, bad guy goes third, but before the wizard
Ranger: I go first. I go around him, set up for flanking and attack. [dice rolling]
Thief: Do we know if this guy is a spell caster? I flank with the ranger and ready an action to attack if he casts a spell.
DM: He moves away from both of you, taking the Attacks of Opportunity [dice rolling]. That's a lot of damage, but he is still on his feet as he moves to an empty corner and speaks a harsh sounding word. His boots glow and he steps back and away through the dimensions. He teleports out, sorry.

The railroad way:

DM: He starts casting a spell. He is teleporting away.
Players: We attack/grapple/cast a spell!
DM: Sorry, he's already gone.

You have an adventure planned. This is THE adventure, you have nothing else planned. There is a way to get the characters involved by railroading, or by respecting them.
Railroad way: "I don't care if you don't want to go to the desert and save the princess. That's what your characters would do. Do that or lose your paladinhood!"
Better way: "Hey guys, I just bought The Desert Princess module. You okay if we run that? Cool. You guys meet a guy in the tavern that says..."

 

[S'mon]

Railroading is bad bad bad. Always. The game can suffer if the PCs do something the GM didn't anticipate. But it suffers far more if the GM won't let the PCs do something he didn't anticipate.

 

[Sammael]

Not always. My players have asked to be railroaded several times in the past, despite having several clues and hooks as to what they could be doing. Sometimes, too much free will can lead to a dead game.

 

[S'mon]

Not always. My players have asked to be railroaded several times in the past, despite having several clues and hooks as to what they could be doing. Sometimes, too much free will can lead to a dead game.

Then your definition is different. Railroading to me means not letting the PCs do anything but follow the rails, and nerfing anything that would 'derail' the plot. Providing a strong plot hook the PCs can choose to follow is different.

Edit: Suggesting a good course of action is OK too, if the players ask for it.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Let's take a look at the bad guy has to get away thing.

That's a railroad. I suggest not creating a situation in which the PCs meet a bad guy who absolutely must escape, because there's always a danger that they'll find a way to kill him/her. If the dice don't go the NPC's way and the players manage to land enough damage to kill the NPC, he or she should be dead.

 

[The_Gneech]

Forbiddance

Area: 60 ft cube/level

Duration: Permanent

Forbiddance seals an area against all planar travel into or within it. This includes all teleportation spells (such as dimension door and teleport), plane shifting, astral travel, ethereal travel, and all summoning spells. Such effects simply fail automatically.

That permanent duration is a bit much ... is there at least an XP cost associated with it?

-The Gneech, imagining his players making whole towns teleport-proof

 

[The_Universe]

This is one of those things that can get on my nerves when I'm playing. The DM is assuming a certain number of things: 1) that the patrol runs across the PC; 2) that the PC failed his spot check to notice the bad guys and didn't have a chance to hide; 3) that the NPCs made their spot checks and saw the PC before he had a chance to do anything.

How the heck could part 1 bother you? Is it really stretching the bounds of verisimilitude to have a patrol around some place a PC would want to escape? Do I have to purposefully create ways to escape to make it all OK? Is it not a valid prison if there is no escape tunnel? The whole *point* of guards is to have them find escapees. Surely this cannot be all that controversial.

So let's say I show you the sheet, and those guards all have unusually high ranks in spot, move silently, and hide. Does that make it all more valid? In the game, I'd certainly assume that patrols *could* have access to those skills, and I'd probably max them out because they're likely to be important. I'd also probably have you roll, but how likely is it that none of the guards are going to roll a high enough spot check to see you? Does the simple fact that I let you roll hide and spot make it all better? Does the fact that I made *them* roll hide and spot make it all better?

The result is the same, and almost assuredly will turn out the same way, no matter how you roll. Does the illusion make it all better?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How the heck could part 1 bother you? Is it really stretching the bounds of verisimilitude to have a patrol around some place a PC would want to escape?

I still think you've got a different definition of railroading than anyone else here, but that having been said ...

There's nothing wrong with PCs being guaranteed to run into a patrol, so long as they aren't taking any particular precautions to avoid doing so.

If, instead, the PCs are playing smart - hiding by day, traveling only by night, staying off of main roads, holing up in caves, moving slowly so they don't come around a bend and into a patrol - then there should be a chance that their intelligent play allows them to bypass the patrols in the area.