Raise Dead Removes Sense of Danger

[da chicken]

I don't think it is that bad of a problem. If your PCs keep dying, they'll soon be too low of a level to face the encounters. If PCs die, don't change the EL of encouters within an adventure; wait until they start the next adventure.

If you want to limit raise dead, increase the casting time to 8 hours (for example). That means a party is going to have a tough time getting a PC back on his feet during the adventure, meaning he's going to lose some XP on top of the level loss.

If I were to remove any of these spells, I'd remove ressurrection. The game begins to assume raise dead is available after 9th-11th level, so it isn't a good idea to fully eliminate it. True ressurrection is fine, primarily because because it is 9th level and 9th level spells should be this powerful.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I think PC's stop fearing death if it happens too often? My take is kill them if they're being stupid, but if they're just unlucky or die from something very arbitary (such as a failed save against death magic) then fudge things a bit and cut them a break!

If you don't like 'raise' spells then you could look at other ways of 'killing' your players - for example - charachter get 'killed' and wakes up with an arm chopped off instead - make it difficult to get a new one. Either that or a clerics god saves them for better things (namely the difficult quest he gave them while they were out). At the last minute the characters favorite weapon got in the way of the blow but got destroyed in the process. Millions of ways to do it. Far more frightening to players than having to roll up a new character.

The next one I want to use is to have the PC come floating back as a ghost - they can't get raised as they are too busy haunting/hanging around with the party. At some point allow them to posses and keep a new body. Although I did steal that idea from somone else!

 

[Prince Atom]

If you don't like 'raise' spells then you could look at other ways of 'killing' your players - for example - charachter get 'killed' and wakes up with an arm chopped off instead - make it difficult to get a new one.

This is a good tactic. The only other place I've seen published rules was in WEG's Star Wars book, but I'm not sure of the edition. Anyway, it was a rule that let you sacrifice some portion of your physical body to keep your life, or let you decide to maim someone instead of killing them. It could have been a Force ability, but it was probably some rule or other.

So... Luke is struck for lethal damage, and either he or Vader decides that the hand is expendable and lets it go, thus preserving Luke's life. Same thing in the third movie, but the tables are turned.

Neat. I like it. Of course, after a while you'll probably get wizards who can't cast spells with somatic components, but....

TWK

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Neat. I like it. Of course, after a while you'll probably get wizards who can't cast spells with somatic components, but....

Might upset the wizard just a little bit! Still, they would get the joyful experience of playing a high level peasant for a little while! And probably wishing they'd taken 'still spell' at some point.

The only other place I've seen published rules was in WEG's Star Wars book, but I'm not sure of the edition

I wonder if anyone stuck the WEG rules online?

I'm just trying this out at the moment. Something another GM put me on to and seemed like a really good idea... Still, I think it's probably something best left to a judgement call at the time rather than fixed rules... I figure it's useful as it does let PC's off a 'bad dice roll' death and also lets GM's bail out a major NPC now and again... Also a great way to get PC's off on some bizarre side quests.

The only problem I can forsee is the regeneration spell would lessen the problem considerably... I'll have to think of a new cop out then.

 

[jadrax]

your players have to much cash, kill them some more untill they are massivly in debt to the dubious temple of ressing for favours and desperatly try to avoid clocking up any more resses.

 

[niastri]

If the party has a tendency to "retire" a character that is underpowered, then the fundamental problem is not with the game system, but the set up of the group.

Only character combat monsters are useful. Characters that are fun to play are not fun, because they will just be killed. They would rather retire characters they like than watch them get killed over and over. I bet you have NEVER had someone choose to play a multiclass npc class, eh?

Second, if you let them bring in new characters at the same level as the rest of the party to circumvent death, then you should make them play a character with lower levels, and learn to be clever. My group is playing a party with a huge variant in levels, and the 9th level characters are NOT more important than the 6th level character, in role playing, nor actual power levels.

My 9th level character is Cool, not Powerful, and that is the way that I like him. He can be useful, but put him against a fighter or a battle mage or even an average cleric, and he will be toast. His favorite battle tactic so far is to cast Blink (he is a bard) and run through the nearest wall.

The idea of a low con character being "crippled" indicates you are running a group that is more of a "Tactical Combat Game" rather than a role playing game. If that is where you are going, then just have restarts every session and make cooler and cooler battles for them to fight, and give experience based on who lived and who did what, and then have them all start fresh at the beginning of the next session.

Either that, or decentralize combat from the campaign and make your role playing game more conversation dependant.

Resurrection is fine the way it is.

 

[mroberon1972]

Don't have raise dead... Yet...

Don't have raise dead... Yet...
My players (14th level avg) are on a quest to raise the party cleric from the dead. Problem is, there is no raise dead spells in out campaign. They are questing for a way to do it. This is the way to raise your friends from the dead... EPIC QUESTS!

May even let them rebuild the world to allow all the raise dead spells... Still working on it...

 

[F5]

I've always thought that the ability to raise dead should be a rare and wonderful thing, so I've altered the Raise Dead spell considerably. I treat it like a Healing spell that can restore the spark of life to a recently-dead creature. Instead of working on a subject that's been dead for 1day/caster level, I make it 1 ROUND per caster level. It's like magical CPR...just enough healing to get the system running again, and if you've been gone too long, you're gone. To make up for it, I've been playing with the idea of not losing a level if the subject has been dead for, like, half the casters' level in rounds, but I think that would lessen the fear of death even more...if there's a cleric nearby, there's no real penalty for dying.
For higher-level spells, I pretty much leave them alone. Once a cleric can cast 7th level spells (resurrection), they've earned the right to do rare and wonderful things.

 

[Jack Daniel]

C'mon people, be a little more creative, dammit!

Pfuh... that's the best the internet-savvy gaming community can come up with? Eliminate the better raise spells or just maim the poor adventurer? And aren't epic quests just a wee bit, shall we say, cliché? And that's totally ignoring the fact that it has no mechancial basis in the D&D rules, or the fact that it will just widen the XP gulf in the party. Where's your sense of fashion, people? If it can't be done with style, it's not worth doing at all. Here's my campaign rule on ressurection:

Gambling with Death
A hapless hero unfortunate enough to find himself wandering the ethereal plane and staring at his mutilated corpse from another dimension is in a bit of a pickle. You see, at the moment he is a shade awaiting escort to his judgement and final reward in the outer planes. Whether his destination be heaven, hell, or some temporary purgation, he will soon encounter that timelessly gloomy and overworked entity, a chap named Death who is all too often bored out of his skull.

You see, Death spends a great deal of time moving from plane to plane escorting the souls of the deceased through the fabrics of reality, and it's a mind-numbing job that doesn't leave much vacation time either. And so, when one of those special people, one of the few, the proud, and the elite, one of those adventureous heroes, falls into Death's hands, he is all too eager to challenge the lucky stiff to a game. The stakes are simple: if the adventurer wins, he may wait (for a time, at least) as a shade on the ethereal plane until such time as he is raised by a cleric, or his time runs out and he must cross over. If Death wins, however, the poor, unfortunate soul becomes a ghost, haunting the site of his demise for all eternity or until a group of scientists with proton packs and PKE meters come by and trap him in an ectoplasmic containment unit.

The game can be whatever Death (as personified by the DM) has handy: dice are good for craps, and cards are especially useful, since a single hand of straight poker is a favorite of Death's. Battleship, checkers, and twister are also great alternatives (just beware of the posibility of distraction by odor if you choose to challenge Death to twister; I hear his feet stink).

 

[WelcomebackPotter]

That whole dead thang.

Admitedly, I'm running a Magic Weak world, so this isn't for everyone. But.

My rule on death is pretty easy. You can come back *once*. Period. And good luck finding someone that can do it.

Bringnig someone back is just a ludicrously large RP event, and just can't be treated like it was a 'Cure Light Death' spell.

Ugh!