Raise Shields!

[Umbran]

I'm hoping for a Golden Wyvern feat for my board-and-sword fighter.

And I'm hoping for a thread that stays on-topic and constructive.

Please, folks, don't drag your grievances around the boards and rattle them in every thread that crops up. You help nothing by doing so. Thank you.

 

[Gloombunny]

Quick point on this post
Active Defense = A roll made to counter a successful action
Passive Defense = A target number to determine the success/failure of an action.

That doesn't make sense. Active defense, to me, means a defense that you have to take some sort of action to use. Passive defense is one that happens automatically.

Whether or not the defender makes a roll isn't really a significant difference. "defender makes Reflex save against caster's save DC" and "caster makes spell roll against defender's Reflex defense" are functionally identical. Terminology that distinguishes the two is not useful.

 

[jaer]

My immediate thought was that the shield gave a bonus to Ref. From what I understand of spells and effects, they attack PCs various defenses, so the dirt burst attacked each PC's Ref. It hit the wizard, rogue, and cleric, but missed the fighter.

The rogue was prone, and as already stated, made him easier to hit (loose dex to AC and Ref?) so while he might have typically been missed, the attack did hit him due to the circumstances.

The fighter, still on his feat, got his full Ref and got his shield as some sort of bonus (feat or fighter ability perhaps?), which made the attack miss him.

I don't see how Evasion could come into play, since the dirt AoE should be an attack (from the rules as we have seen them), and therefore rolls to see if it misses, hits, or crits. Under those options, there can be no 3e evasion ability (but there could be a Imp Evasion like ability: even if an AoE scores a hits on you, you only take half damage from the attack).

 

[CleverNickName]

For those lacking SWSE, the block talent allows a person to negate a melee attack against them by rolling a skill against a DC of the attack roll that hit him. A similar idea could work with a shield. Roll (something or other), with a DC of the attack that’s hit you. If you succeed, your shield intercepts the attack and you take no damage. (In principle it works much like the Mounted Combat feat in 3.X, but with shields instead of horses.)

Having shield block as a talent would still allow clerics and others to carry a shield for the AC boost, but a fighter would have extra options. It would also provide a clear difference between the 2-H greatsword using brawler and the more defensive focused combatant.

Your thoughts?

I think this is absolutely brilliant. I never liked the idea of shields being a "passive" bonus. In my limited experience with the SCA, shields take a great deal of effort to use effectively. Simply hanging one off of your arm isn't going to help much.

Different shields could grant different modifiers to the block roll. A small, light shield like a buckler might not give you a bonus at all, but would at least grant you the ability to block incoming attacks with an opposed roll. Larger shields could grant +1 or +2 bonuses to the block roll.

I like this idea a lot (scribbles down notes for 3.5E home brew)...

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Nothing really to add, other than I agree that shields as a kind of active defense would be a great improvement.

Also, for those thinking that this might go against the 4e design philosophy and slow things down, it really doesn't. Having played with block/deflect in Saga, it is a quick and painless process.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

That doesn't make sense. Active defense, to me, means a defense that you have to take some sort of action to use. Passive defense is one that happens automatically.

Whether or not the defender makes a roll isn't really a significant difference. "defender makes Reflex save against caster's save DC" and "caster makes spell roll against defender's Reflex defense" are functionally identical. Terminology that distinguishes the two is not useful.

Good point Gloombunny, I should clarify that post. When I was thinking about active defenses, I was thinking of using your Immediate Action for the turn to Actively Defend against an oncoming attack (typically with a roll of some sort).

 

[JohnSnow]

I don't see how Evasion could come into play, since the dirt AoE should be an attack (from the rules as we have seen them), and therefore rolls to see if it misses, hits, or crits. Under those options, there can be no 3e evasion ability (but there could be a Imp Evasion like ability: even if an AoE scores a hits on you, you only take half damage from the attack).

As I said in that other thread, SWSE handles area effect attacks as follows:

Hit: Full damage
Miss: Half damage

Saga also has an Evasion talent (for the Scout class). With Evasion, it works as follows:

Hit: Half damage
Miss: No damage

I can't recall whether AoE attacks can deal critical hits. But that's a minor change.

 

[Oldtimer]

Sorry, have mentioned this in sev places, but how many pictures are there where the fighter/knight raises his shield to protect himself from the dragon's fiery breath? And in each of those the shield diverts the flame. Heck, it is even in a few DnD pictures (inc a full page spread from Complete Divine if my memory serve me correctly). And yet there is NOTHING in the rules to explain this. Having a shield vs a dragon's breath weapon is useless???

I sure hope all the abilites mentioned above are possible. I hope it was an ability just like this that protected the fighter from the rock spray.

You might get your wish. Races & Classes says this about shields: "Capable of turning away spear-thrust, arrow shaft, and fireball alike, ..."

So your fighter's shield will probably work against the dragon's breath weapon as well.

 

[WayneLigon]

This sounds most interesting. I wonder how the 'fighters get to do this special thing, clerics don't' works with multiclassing?

 

[sunrisekid]

Also, for those thinking that this might go against the 4e design philosophy and slow things down, it really doesn't. Having played with block/deflect in Saga, it is a quick and painless process.

This is the first thing that crossed my mind when I first read of this mechanic. I'm glad to hear of your experience on this, as game play sounds like a lot of fun